4 ms·

The normal flu can be pretty bad. In 2018 the spike in total deaths in TX and surrounding states were between a third and a half of the covid spike in those reg

The normal flu can be pretty bad. In 2018 the spike in total deaths in TX and surrounding states were between a third and a half of the covid spike in those regions. Masks might have been a good idea in 2018 and I hope they become part of our culture at least when you think you might be coming down with something. You know, that first day of a cold when you are telling yourself its allergies or drainage. Shutting down stores makes less sense.

jampekka 6y ago
How about a culture and social support system where you can just stay home and rest if you feel something's up? Probably a lot more efficient than a mask, and would probably help with lots of other problems as well.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Plenty of people, hourly, gig, and self-employed people don’t get paid if they don’t work. You might be able to force some of those to be paid while sick-not-working, but the last category will be very difficult to address without either missing a lot of folks or creating tons of fraud and grift risk (and represent a lot of interactions with the public).
  - jampekka 6y ago
    I think this goes under culture and social support system. Perhaps worth a thought that giving more support for everybody can help everybody. This interaction is quite apparent in e.g. epidemics, but probably has similar effects for many phenomena.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      Of course it falls into the category of social support system, but what the specific design choices are matter in terms of driving behavior. If I (salaried) take a sick day, I get paid the same amount from the same source; there’s next-to-no economic incentive for me to risk the health of others by working when sick: problem is solved. We could more or less force the same by law for scheduled hourly workers. It’s a little more difficult for gig. It’s basically impossible (as I see it) to put self-employed people at the same outcome as if they worked without substantial risks of under-comping some and over-comping others.
      - thom 6y ago
        It seems pretty clear that the person you’re replying to agrees with you, they just committed the crime of stating your position more succinctly.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    Washington state has a tax funded state paid sick leave program for anyone who has worked at least n hours in the prior year and paid into it.
- galangalalgol 6y ago
  But sometimes it is allergies, and you feel fine and want to get some work done. Masks aren't a big deal, I forget I have mine on, and I wear it all day. Maybe some people have more difficulty? If I vwas in construction or something more physical vthan typing I might vfeel differently.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    People who are subject to allergies know they are so and allergies doesn't cause most of the same symptoms. You could probably differentiate most cases of sickness by simply taking your temperature.
    - galangalalgol 6y ago
      I think most people have allergies now don't they? It didn't used to be that way. I get colds with no fever usually.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        I think only 1 in 6 or 7 are allergic to anything if you mean seasonal allergies to pollen what most people seem to mean when they say they feel poorly from allergies its only half as prevalent. That is to say most people don't have allergies to confuse with illness and although you might wake up feeling poorly for a number of reasons flu sufferers are liable to suffer from one or more distinguishable symptoms for example for myself when I've contracted the flu I always get a really shitty body ache. It's possible to get a cold without also having a fever. You are absolutely correct about that but even in that instance the majority are liable to be able to know when they are ill. They just don't stay home because the social pressure has been in favor of bringing your sickness to work as if you were doing everyone a favor by showing up and making your cohorts sick.
        galangalalgol 6y ago
        When I was a kid with allergies I think it was 15% had allergies. Now 30% of adults and 40% of kids have them. https://www.webmd.com/allergies/allergy-statistics https://www.webmd.com/allergies/allergy-statistics Sometimes my throat is sore but its just allergy drainage. It doesn't help that the things I'm allergic to line up with flu season.
hutzlibu 6y ago
"Shutting down stores makes less sense." Depends on what you want to achieve. If you like a increase of infection, you do it like here in germany and close down hardware stores etc. multiple times on short notice, without telling when they will open again - so people try to storm them before they close, all coming closely together by doing so, which they would not have otherwise.
- jobigoud 6y ago
  This particular type of unintended consequence has been repeated multiple times during the crisis, it's puzzling. For example here in order to avoid contamination in public transports they limited the hours of service. Consequence: same number of people took transport but in less time, increasing density and contact. Similarly with the curfew forcing shops to close earlier in the day, more people gather in less time.

jampekka 6y ago

How about a culture and social support system where you can just stay home and rest if you feel something's up? Probably a lot more efficient than a mask, and would probably help with lots of other problems as well.

sokoloff 6y ago
Plenty of people, hourly, gig, and self-employed people don’t get paid if they don’t work. You might be able to force some of those to be paid while sick-not-working, but the last category will be very difficult to address without either missing a lot of folks or creating tons of fraud and grift risk (and represent a lot of interactions with the public).
- jampekka 6y ago
  I think this goes under culture and social support system. Perhaps worth a thought that giving more support for everybody can help everybody. This interaction is quite apparent in e.g. epidemics, but probably has similar effects for many phenomena.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Of course it falls into the category of social support system, but what the specific design choices are matter in terms of driving behavior. If I (salaried) take a sick day, I get paid the same amount from the same source; there’s next-to-no economic incentive for me to risk the health of others by working when sick: problem is solved. We could more or less force the same by law for scheduled hourly workers. It’s a little more difficult for gig. It’s basically impossible (as I see it) to put self-employed people at the same outcome as if they worked without substantial risks of under-comping some and over-comping others.
    - thom 6y ago
      It seems pretty clear that the person you’re replying to agrees with you, they just committed the crime of stating your position more succinctly.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Washington state has a tax funded state paid sick leave program for anyone who has worked at least n hours in the prior year and paid into it.
galangalalgol 6y ago
But sometimes it is allergies, and you feel fine and want to get some work done. Masks aren't a big deal, I forget I have mine on, and I wear it all day. Maybe some people have more difficulty? If I vwas in construction or something more physical vthan typing I might vfeel differently.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  People who are subject to allergies know they are so and allergies doesn't cause most of the same symptoms. You could probably differentiate most cases of sickness by simply taking your temperature.
  - galangalalgol 6y ago
    I think most people have allergies now don't they? It didn't used to be that way. I get colds with no fever usually.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      I think only 1 in 6 or 7 are allergic to anything if you mean seasonal allergies to pollen what most people seem to mean when they say they feel poorly from allergies its only half as prevalent. That is to say most people don't have allergies to confuse with illness and although you might wake up feeling poorly for a number of reasons flu sufferers are liable to suffer from one or more distinguishable symptoms for example for myself when I've contracted the flu I always get a really shitty body ache. It's possible to get a cold without also having a fever. You are absolutely correct about that but even in that instance the majority are liable to be able to know when they are ill. They just don't stay home because the social pressure has been in favor of bringing your sickness to work as if you were doing everyone a favor by showing up and making your cohorts sick.
      - galangalalgol 6y ago
        When I was a kid with allergies I think it was 15% had allergies. Now 30% of adults and 40% of kids have them. https://www.webmd.com/allergies/allergy-statistics https://www.webmd.com/allergies/allergy-statistics Sometimes my throat is sore but its just allergy drainage. It doesn't help that the things I'm allergic to line up with flu season.

hutzlibu 6y ago

"Shutting down stores makes less sense." Depends on what you want to achieve. If you like a increase of infection, you do it like here in germany and close down hardware stores etc. multiple times on short notice, without telling when they will open again - so people try to storm them before they close, all coming closely together by doing so, which they would not have otherwise.

jobigoud 6y ago
This particular type of unintended consequence has been repeated multiple times during the crisis, it's puzzling. For example here in order to avoid contamination in public transports they limited the hours of service. Consequence: same number of people took transport but in less time, increasing density and contact. Similarly with the curfew forcing shops to close earlier in the day, more people gather in less time.