4 ms·

I have seen reports that Pfizer and Moderna have had blood clot numbers too. I'm getting pretty tired of all the anti-AZ hysteria. I got the 1st shot of it and

I have seen reports that Pfizer and Moderna have had blood clot numbers too. I'm getting pretty tired of all the anti-AZ hysteria. I got the 1st shot of it and will get the second. Put it this way, if you get actual covid, your risk of getting a blood clot drops to something like out of 1,000. That's way better odds than a million. So logically right there, the vaccine is a great idea. Secondly, I haven't been convinced that some of this negative press isn't intentional. AZ is non-profit, Pfizer and the others are for-profit. Who benefits from negative AZ stories?

varispeed 5y ago
I don't understand that any question about a potential corruption motive is treated as a taboo. Corruption is more rife than ever in the current politics and nothing is being done about it. Why people downvote genuine worry that such thing might be happening is beyond me. Corruption is what destroys societies and yet people look away hoping if they don't see it then it is not happening.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  I don't consider blood clots as genuine worry. The risk of getting a blood clot from covid is much higher. The risk of suffering a serious adverse medical event from covid is much higher. There is a much higher risk/reward ratio for public health to have vaccines proceed than to not. The narrative of AZ being scary is fueling vaccine hesitancy and contributing to vaccine shopping.
  - this_user 5y ago
    > I don't consider blood clots as genuine worry. The risk of getting a blood clot from covid is much higher. The risk of suffering a serious adverse medical event from covid is much higher. This is simply not true. COVID does not have a higher risk of inducing this specific kind of blood clots, the risk of death from which seems to be around 20% based on the available data. Furthermore, the risk of suffering such an event from the AZN vaccine seems to increase with lower age while the risk of serious medical events from COVID appear to rise exponential with age, i.e. the risk to a young person is almost negligible. Obviously, there must exist an equilibrium at which the risk of taking this vaccine equals the risk from COVID. But given that other vaccines are available that a) have higher efficacy, and b) have a substantially lower risk of causing blood clots than the AZN vaccine, we need to assume that the age of equilibrium lies relatively high. This means that if you life in a country with access to mRNA vaccines in the foreseeable future, and if you are healthy and below the age bracket of 60-70 where the risk of serious complications from COVID starts ramping up substantially, you are better off waiting if only the AZN vaccine is available. The real problem isn't people pointing out these issues with the AZN vaccine, but people like you who insist that they are perfectly safe even though that is objectively untrue, and better alternatives exist.
mschuster91 5y ago
There are a number of reasons other than "cui bono" why AZ is more in focus. First one: Astrazeneca (and for what it's worth, also Sputnik and Sinovac) uses a vectorvirus with all problems that come with that (as the "carrier" virus is still somewhat alive). Second one: Biontech/Moderna got used for the elderly population in many countries as they were the first to market, whereas AZ was mainly used for younger care staff in countries like Germany (and UK, which almost exclusively used AZ, prioritized the elderly, too). Given that the clotting issue seems to be drastically more prevalent in young women (which is the common demographics for care staff) it's not surprising to see a rush of clotting cases prop up in Germany and not in UK. An uninformed at best and clickbait/scaremongering/ragebait-interested at worst press is bound to take that cheap bait. Third one: AZ completely fucked up its deliveries to the EU and had massive issues with intransparency, which leads to even more, this time legitimate and massive, press and political attention. Side note: AZ vaccine was developed by non-profit Oxford University, but AZ is still a for-profit company! (Also, if I would have the chance of an AZ dose I'd gladly take it, but here in Germany our politicians are incompetent buffoons so God knows when I'll get a shot)
Mvandenbergh 5y ago
The European and British medical regulators are not going to go out of their way to invent clotting disorders that aren't there.

varispeed 5y ago

I don't understand that any question about a potential corruption motive is treated as a taboo. Corruption is more rife than ever in the current politics and nothing is being done about it. Why people downvote genuine worry that such thing might be happening is beyond me. Corruption is what destroys societies and yet people look away hoping if they don't see it then it is not happening.

Sunspark 5y ago
I don't consider blood clots as genuine worry. The risk of getting a blood clot from covid is much higher. The risk of suffering a serious adverse medical event from covid is much higher. There is a much higher risk/reward ratio for public health to have vaccines proceed than to not. The narrative of AZ being scary is fueling vaccine hesitancy and contributing to vaccine shopping.
- this_user 5y ago
  > I don't consider blood clots as genuine worry. The risk of getting a blood clot from covid is much higher. The risk of suffering a serious adverse medical event from covid is much higher. This is simply not true. COVID does not have a higher risk of inducing this specific kind of blood clots, the risk of death from which seems to be around 20% based on the available data. Furthermore, the risk of suffering such an event from the AZN vaccine seems to increase with lower age while the risk of serious medical events from COVID appear to rise exponential with age, i.e. the risk to a young person is almost negligible. Obviously, there must exist an equilibrium at which the risk of taking this vaccine equals the risk from COVID. But given that other vaccines are available that a) have higher efficacy, and b) have a substantially lower risk of causing blood clots than the AZN vaccine, we need to assume that the age of equilibrium lies relatively high. This means that if you life in a country with access to mRNA vaccines in the foreseeable future, and if you are healthy and below the age bracket of 60-70 where the risk of serious complications from COVID starts ramping up substantially, you are better off waiting if only the AZN vaccine is available. The real problem isn't people pointing out these issues with the AZN vaccine, but people like you who insist that they are perfectly safe even though that is objectively untrue, and better alternatives exist.

mschuster91 5y ago

There are a number of reasons other than "cui bono" why AZ is more in focus. First one: Astrazeneca (and for what it's worth, also Sputnik and Sinovac) uses a vectorvirus with all problems that come with that (as the "carrier" virus is still somewhat alive). Second one: Biontech/Moderna got used for the elderly population in many countries as they were the first to market, whereas AZ was mainly used for younger care staff in countries like Germany (and UK, which almost exclusively used AZ, prioritized the elderly, too). Given that the clotting issue seems to be drastically more prevalent in young women (which is the common demographics for care staff) it's not surprising to see a rush of clotting cases prop up in Germany and not in UK. An uninformed at best and clickbait/scaremongering/ragebait-interested at worst press is bound to take that cheap bait. Third one: AZ completely fucked up its deliveries to the EU and had massive issues with intransparency, which leads to even more, this time legitimate and massive, press and political attention. Side note: AZ vaccine was developed by non-profit Oxford University, but AZ is still a for-profit company! (Also, if I would have the chance of an AZ dose I'd gladly take it, but here in Germany our politicians are incompetent buffoons so God knows when I'll get a shot)

Mvandenbergh 5y ago

The European and British medical regulators are not going to go out of their way to invent clotting disorders that aren't there.