4 ms·

I only wish it weren't named Yaya, as I hate promoting the idea that old women are the pinnacle of technological ineptness. I know that wasn't the intent, but

I only wish it weren't named Yaya, as I hate promoting the idea that old women are the pinnacle of technological ineptness. I know that wasn't the intent, but still. It's unfortunately a common expression to say "This product is so easy, even your grandmother can use it!" As if the only group more incompetent than old people, is old women (or, if you prefer, the only group more incompetent than women are old women). I really think it's time to consciously move away from this outdated meme.

bozzcl 6y ago
If you know that wasn't the intent, why make this complaint at all?
- gordian-mind 6y ago
  This type of bland complaint is just a common way nowadays to signal that you are part of the In-group, that cares about people.
  - khazhoux 6y ago
    I can assure you that I am not luxuriating in the benefits and privileges of this fabled "In-group", and that I'm only trying to draw attention to the fact that the common expression "So simple even your grandmother will understand it" is demeaning to both women and old people. Clearly you don't care about that, so there's little for us to discuss.
- khazhoux 6y ago
  When people use the expression "So simple even your grandmother will understand it" I don't think they are trying to insult anyone. But... it is an insult, whether it was meant that way or not.
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frereubu 6y ago
I get what you're saying, but it's a one-off thing that the guy built especially for his Yaya.
- khazhoux 6y ago
  Totally get that. My point is that "Even your grandmother can use it" is still a common saying, combining both sexism and agism, and we should stop promoting that notion. To illustrate this, if it was this guy's uncle who was techno-challenged and he named it "Unclegram", probably most people would be scratching their heads. But we see Yayagram and it "makes sense"... because of course grandmothers struggle with technology! See the problem?
  - frereubu 6y ago
    Absolutely. I'm very sensitive to that kind of thing because I have a 90-year-old mother who I hate people writing off like that. But unless I missed it he doesn't say "Even your grandmother can use it" in his thread does he? I just feel like you're picking the wrong item to hang this argument from.
    - khazhoux 6y ago
      The inventor was not generalizing, but when it starts moving from his one-off to a product idea (as lots of folks are asking for him to productize it) that where my argument comes in. Most likely this won't be a real product anyway, so I suppose I'm just trying to draw attention to this meme that does happen a lot.
      - frereubu 6y ago
        I see you're getting a bunch of downvotes. I hope I didn't bring those on - I know you're engaging in good faith and I agree with your basic premise. It would make a good blog post if you fancied writing it and posting here.
  - abraae 6y ago
    You realise that (typically) an uncle would be one generation younger and thus have decades more exposure to technology, hence "so simple my uncle could use it" doesn't really work. It's hard to hide from the fact that seniors are more likely to struggle with technology. You can't sweep that under a politically correct rug. And if we did, people would be less likely to make things like this, because no-one could talk about them.
Ashanmaril 6y ago
"Gram" also means grandma. The full English translation of this name is "Gramgram"
- sethammons 6y ago
  > Gramgram which also means grandma :)
  - throwaway316943 6y ago
    Gramagram would be another good name for this device
SavantIdiot 6y ago
Agreed. The "even a mom can do it" is broken on so many levels. There's a documentary about the developers of Mozilla, and one of them makes a comment while golfing (I think) in response to this cliche. He says, "My mother writes optimizing compilers." Can't remember the film or the person, but they were wearing launch t-shirts that read "zaro boogs" (zero bugs) still sticks in my head. EDIT: Pretty sure it was "Code Rush", 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Rush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Rush
- jwatt 6y ago
  That's in Code Rush: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7FTjhvZ7Y&t=656s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7FTjhvZ7Y&t=656s
golemiprague 6y ago
In many cases it is true though, men are more technologically inclined and younger people have better cognitive skills and it is not going to change even if you force the whole population to say every morning that men and women are exactly the same or young and old are exactly the same

bozzcl 6y ago

If you know that wasn't the intent, why make this complaint at all?

gordian-mind 6y ago
This type of bland complaint is just a common way nowadays to signal that you are part of the In-group, that cares about people.
- khazhoux 6y ago
  I can assure you that I am not luxuriating in the benefits and privileges of this fabled "In-group", and that I'm only trying to draw attention to the fact that the common expression "So simple even your grandmother will understand it" is demeaning to both women and old people. Clearly you don't care about that, so there's little for us to discuss.
khazhoux 6y ago
When people use the expression "So simple even your grandmother will understand it" I don't think they are trying to insult anyone. But... it is an insult, whether it was meant that way or not.
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frereubu 6y ago

I get what you're saying, but it's a one-off thing that the guy built especially for his Yaya.

khazhoux 6y ago
Totally get that. My point is that "Even your grandmother can use it" is still a common saying, combining both sexism and agism, and we should stop promoting that notion. To illustrate this, if it was this guy's uncle who was techno-challenged and he named it "Unclegram", probably most people would be scratching their heads. But we see Yayagram and it "makes sense"... because of course grandmothers struggle with technology! See the problem?
- frereubu 6y ago
  Absolutely. I'm very sensitive to that kind of thing because I have a 90-year-old mother who I hate people writing off like that. But unless I missed it he doesn't say "Even your grandmother can use it" in his thread does he? I just feel like you're picking the wrong item to hang this argument from.
  - khazhoux 6y ago
    The inventor was not generalizing, but when it starts moving from his one-off to a product idea (as lots of folks are asking for him to productize it) that where my argument comes in. Most likely this won't be a real product anyway, so I suppose I'm just trying to draw attention to this meme that does happen a lot.
    - frereubu 6y ago
      I see you're getting a bunch of downvotes. I hope I didn't bring those on - I know you're engaging in good faith and I agree with your basic premise. It would make a good blog post if you fancied writing it and posting here.
- abraae 6y ago
  You realise that (typically) an uncle would be one generation younger and thus have decades more exposure to technology, hence "so simple my uncle could use it" doesn't really work. It's hard to hide from the fact that seniors are more likely to struggle with technology. You can't sweep that under a politically correct rug. And if we did, people would be less likely to make things like this, because no-one could talk about them.

Ashanmaril 6y ago

"Gram" also means grandma. The full English translation of this name is "Gramgram"

sethammons 6y ago
> Gramgram which also means grandma :)
- throwaway316943 6y ago
  Gramagram would be another good name for this device

SavantIdiot 6y ago

Agreed. The "even a mom can do it" is broken on so many levels. There's a documentary about the developers of Mozilla, and one of them makes a comment while golfing (I think) in response to this cliche. He says, "My mother writes optimizing compilers." Can't remember the film or the person, but they were wearing launch t-shirts that read "zaro boogs" (zero bugs) still sticks in my head. EDIT: Pretty sure it was "Code Rush", 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Rush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Rush

jwatt 6y ago
That's in Code Rush: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7FTjhvZ7Y&t=656s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7FTjhvZ7Y&t=656s

golemiprague 6y ago

In many cases it is true though, men are more technologically inclined and younger people have better cognitive skills and it is not going to change even if you force the whole population to say every morning that men and women are exactly the same or young and old are exactly the same