7 ms·

Your objective is terrible. The ability to eat as much animal products as you desire is synonymous with living in a first world country. A future where we can n

Your objective is terrible. The ability to eat as much animal products as you desire is synonymous with living in a first world country. A future where we can no longer do that is backwards.

ccmonnett 6y ago
Your ability to eat as much food as you desire is synonymous with living in a first world country. The ability murder as many animals as you want is not the desired state I look for when thinking about the world in which my child to grow up. A future in which that is synonymous with status is backwards - to me.
- xdennis 6y ago
  > murder Please show me the law.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    They’re clearly using the word in the moral sense rather than the legal sense.
    - xdennis 6y ago
      So in the wrong sense? This squeamishness is a product of the infantilization western culture seems to be going through recently. Hopefully immigration from 2/3-world countries (e.g. me) helps fix it.
      - ben_w 6y ago
        It’s a perfectly legit use of the word. Words are not defined by God; they get their meaning though use, and Merriam-Webster records one such use is “to slaughter wantonly”.
      - amusedcyclist 6y ago
        A 'squeamishness' that comes from the reality that we don't need to kill animals to live comfortably anymore. The morality of a rich society is naturally different from the morality of poor country.
  - whynotkeithberg 6y ago
    Yeah veganism is 100% a first world privilege.
    - hombre_fatal 6y ago
      Not at all. I live next to a tiny shop in Mexico that sells fruits, vegetables, and some extras like oatmeal and beans and olive oil. I eat healthier (according to research reviewed by NutritionFacts.org) and more cheaply than anyone I know once I decided to limit my diet to only the things they have, incidentally vegan. I spend almost nothing on food in this shop. Same for all the poor Mexicans who live in the area. It’s quite obvious that ubiquitous access to cheap animal products is a first world thing.
    - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 6y ago
      Let me introduce you to South Indian cuisine... yes, it's not actually 100% vegan, but it goes to show that you don't need to be a Marin County millionaire to eat healthy plant-based food most of your life.
- captainredbeard 6y ago
  Well, you can choose to not contribute to animal-based agriculture. Similarly, I do not want mine to grow up in a world with forced veganism. Who wins in this conflict? I would say you keep your morals in your court for such contentious issues, to do otherwise is maliciously aggressive.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    I don’t know if cows can suffer like humans can or not, so I am content to not get in your way. That said, I invite you to consider what you would and would not allow others to do given a hypothetical: if you genuinely believed that cows were just as capable of suffering as humans — especially given that cows lactate only after giving birth, and dairy cows live only for so long as their milk is worth more than the cost of keeping them alive. Most functioning adults can keep quiet about a simple preference (for Star Trek when around Star Wars fans, or whatever) but morals don’t work the same.
    - captainredbeard 6y ago
      > Most functioning adults can keep quiet about a simple preference but morals don’t work the same. Handling difficult feelings without acting out is one of the definitions of being a functional adult. You may have that backwards, though it is very consistent with the pop culture moral / philosophical (behavioral?) flavor of late.
      - ben_w 6y ago
        Counterpoints: every religious war ever. The “war” on drugs. Prohibition. Moral crusades for censorship or elimination of porn. Rules against sex work in general. Sections 64, 65, 69, 70 and 71 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The religious affiliation requirements in the rules of succession of the British Crown. Forbidden foods in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and others. Western prohibition on multiple spouses. The level of enforcement and punishment varies form instance to instance, from culture to culture, and from year to year, but there are cases even today where religious morality leads to extreme use of force: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/hindu-mob-lynches-muslim-rumoured-to-have-killed-cow-1.2372948 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/hindu-mob...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Your objective is terrible. The ability to eat as much animal products as you desire is synonymous with living in a first world country. A future where we can no longer do that is backwards.

ccmonnett 6y ago

Your ability to eat as much food as you desire is synonymous with living in a first world country. The ability murder as many animals as you want is not the desired state I look for when thinking about the world in which my child to grow up. A future in which that is synonymous with status is backwards - to me.

xdennis 6y ago
> murder Please show me the law.
- ben_w 6y ago
  They’re clearly using the word in the moral sense rather than the legal sense.
  - xdennis 6y ago
    So in the wrong sense? This squeamishness is a product of the infantilization western culture seems to be going through recently. Hopefully immigration from 2/3-world countries (e.g. me) helps fix it.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      It’s a perfectly legit use of the word. Words are not defined by God; they get their meaning though use, and Merriam-Webster records one such use is “to slaughter wantonly”.
    - amusedcyclist 6y ago
      A 'squeamishness' that comes from the reality that we don't need to kill animals to live comfortably anymore. The morality of a rich society is naturally different from the morality of poor country.
- whynotkeithberg 6y ago
  Yeah veganism is 100% a first world privilege.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    Not at all. I live next to a tiny shop in Mexico that sells fruits, vegetables, and some extras like oatmeal and beans and olive oil. I eat healthier (according to research reviewed by NutritionFacts.org) and more cheaply than anyone I know once I decided to limit my diet to only the things they have, incidentally vegan. I spend almost nothing on food in this shop. Same for all the poor Mexicans who live in the area. It’s quite obvious that ubiquitous access to cheap animal products is a first world thing.
  - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 6y ago
    Let me introduce you to South Indian cuisine... yes, it's not actually 100% vegan, but it goes to show that you don't need to be a Marin County millionaire to eat healthy plant-based food most of your life.
captainredbeard 6y ago
Well, you can choose to not contribute to animal-based agriculture. Similarly, I do not want mine to grow up in a world with forced veganism. Who wins in this conflict? I would say you keep your morals in your court for such contentious issues, to do otherwise is maliciously aggressive.
- ben_w 6y ago
  I don’t know if cows can suffer like humans can or not, so I am content to not get in your way. That said, I invite you to consider what you would and would not allow others to do given a hypothetical: if you genuinely believed that cows were just as capable of suffering as humans — especially given that cows lactate only after giving birth, and dairy cows live only for so long as their milk is worth more than the cost of keeping them alive. Most functioning adults can keep quiet about a simple preference (for Star Trek when around Star Wars fans, or whatever) but morals don’t work the same.
  - captainredbeard 6y ago
    > Most functioning adults can keep quiet about a simple preference but morals don’t work the same. Handling difficult feelings without acting out is one of the definitions of being a functional adult. You may have that backwards, though it is very consistent with the pop culture moral / philosophical (behavioral?) flavor of late.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      Counterpoints: every religious war ever. The “war” on drugs. Prohibition. Moral crusades for censorship or elimination of porn. Rules against sex work in general. Sections 64, 65, 69, 70 and 71 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The religious affiliation requirements in the rules of succession of the British Crown. Forbidden foods in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and others. Western prohibition on multiple spouses. The level of enforcement and punishment varies form instance to instance, from culture to culture, and from year to year, but there are cases even today where religious morality leads to extreme use of force: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/hindu-mob-lynches-muslim-rumoured-to-have-killed-cow-1.2372948 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/hindu-mob...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]