4 ms·

This is a super weird stance to be honest... Imagine if I sell my book on Amazon. Is Amazon the employer or my publisher? If I rent my home out on AirBnB, is

This is a super weird stance to be honest... Imagine if I sell my book on Amazon. Is Amazon the employer or my publisher? If I rent my home out on AirBnB, is AirBnB by land lord or realtor? If I offer to fix plumbing via craigslist, is craigslist my employer? So, if I offer to much of my services on a platform am I to be employed by that platform? The drivers of Uber and Lyft have opted not to be employees before. There seems to be some sort of political agenda here (maybe increase in taxes?), because no one seems to want this.

ceejayoz 5y ago
Only the plumber is a contractor/employer scenario. The rest of the examples are irrelevant. Individual plumbers are often contractors. If they work for a larger plumbing company, they'd be an employee. There are specific criteria at play here: https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contr... > A worker is an employee when the business has the right to direct and control the work performed by the worker, even if that right is not exercised. Uber sets the driver standards, how the work should be done, policies, pricing, etc. They clearly have some aspects of an employer/employee relationship. The line's a little blurry in spots; I can see both sides of the argument, and I'd say it's clear the law didn't anticipate this scenario.
- citilife 5y ago
  What is a contractor? They are person or company leasing labor aka providing services. The other items I listed were both services and goods. The point is that you shouldn't force a platform to employ or act as anything other than what it is (a routing system). Uber is not directly employing people, it's connecting customers to produces of a service (taxis, effectively). It's also acting as the payment processor and price setter. Everyone can know what they're getting / paying ahead of time. It's a transaction.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > They are person or company leasing labor aka providing services. The formal definition - see the IRS link - is substantially more complex than that. I provide services to the company that employs me. I am not a contractor.
IncRnd 5y ago
> Imagine if I sell my book on Amazon. Is Amazon the employer or my publisher? In that case Amazon is your book seller. They may also be a publisher through Kindle Direct Publishing. > If I rent my home out on AirBnB, is AirBnB by land lord or realtor? You'd best check in the jurisdiction where your home is, but it is more likely they would be a property management company. > If I offer to fix plumbing via craigslist, is craigslist my employer? This is a bona fide activity performed by contractors. > So, if I offer to much of my services on a platform am I to be employed by that platform? There is a reason why we don't see Uber drivers advertising on Cragislist but lots of ads on Cragslist to hire drivers for Uber.
kokanator 5y ago
This is about TAXES and the cost of healthcare for the government. 1. We implement OBAMA care which allows most people to receive subsidized health insurance. Supposedly to cover the uninsured. Then pension plans, employers, gig companies take advantage of this fact and push the people to the marketplace. The cost of OBAMA care skyrockets along with all other insurance plans. 2. Gig companies do not have to carry employee tax liability on their balance sheet. Each independent gig work needs to do this. Would the IRS rather collect from 1 company or hundreds of thousands of independent contractors. Additionally, independent contractors are viewed as a business and can take substantial deductions. The combination of taking advantage of tax deductions, the cost to collect from all of contractors and the fact that a good number of contractors do not make their tax payments, leads to reduced revenue. 3. Personal mandate goes away and the Gig worker drops their health insurance or the personal mandate wasn't paid int he first place. By creating this scenario OBAMA care becomes unsustainable. I worked 19 years as a contractor and loved it. Never was provided benefits. I purchased my own health insurance until the ACA came along and it doubled the cost the plan I purchased for my family year over year until it was unaffordable. I didn't want to purchase the terrible plans available through the marketplace so I got a job.

ceejayoz 5y ago

Only the plumber is a contractor/employer scenario. The rest of the examples are irrelevant. Individual plumbers are often contractors. If they work for a larger plumbing company, they'd be an employee. There are specific criteria at play here: https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contr... > A worker is an employee when the business has the right to direct and control the work performed by the worker, even if that right is not exercised. Uber sets the driver standards, how the work should be done, policies, pricing, etc. They clearly have some aspects of an employer/employee relationship. The line's a little blurry in spots; I can see both sides of the argument, and I'd say it's clear the law didn't anticipate this scenario.

citilife 5y ago
What is a contractor? They are person or company leasing labor aka providing services. The other items I listed were both services and goods. The point is that you shouldn't force a platform to employ or act as anything other than what it is (a routing system). Uber is not directly employing people, it's connecting customers to produces of a service (taxis, effectively). It's also acting as the payment processor and price setter. Everyone can know what they're getting / paying ahead of time. It's a transaction.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > They are person or company leasing labor aka providing services. The formal definition - see the IRS link - is substantially more complex than that. I provide services to the company that employs me. I am not a contractor.

IncRnd 5y ago

> Imagine if I sell my book on Amazon. Is Amazon the employer or my publisher? In that case Amazon is your book seller. They may also be a publisher through Kindle Direct Publishing. > If I rent my home out on AirBnB, is AirBnB by land lord or realtor? You'd best check in the jurisdiction where your home is, but it is more likely they would be a property management company. > If I offer to fix plumbing via craigslist, is craigslist my employer? This is a bona fide activity performed by contractors. > So, if I offer to much of my services on a platform am I to be employed by that platform? There is a reason why we don't see Uber drivers advertising on Cragislist but lots of ads on Cragslist to hire drivers for Uber.

kokanator 5y ago

This is about TAXES and the cost of healthcare for the government. 1. We implement OBAMA care which allows most people to receive subsidized health insurance. Supposedly to cover the uninsured. Then pension plans, employers, gig companies take advantage of this fact and push the people to the marketplace. The cost of OBAMA care skyrockets along with all other insurance plans. 2. Gig companies do not have to carry employee tax liability on their balance sheet. Each independent gig work needs to do this. Would the IRS rather collect from 1 company or hundreds of thousands of independent contractors. Additionally, independent contractors are viewed as a business and can take substantial deductions. The combination of taking advantage of tax deductions, the cost to collect from all of contractors and the fact that a good number of contractors do not make their tax payments, leads to reduced revenue. 3. Personal mandate goes away and the Gig worker drops their health insurance or the personal mandate wasn't paid int he first place. By creating this scenario OBAMA care becomes unsustainable. I worked 19 years as a contractor and loved it. Never was provided benefits. I purchased my own health insurance until the ACA came along and it doubled the cost the plan I purchased for my family year over year until it was unaffordable. I didn't want to purchase the terrible plans available through the marketplace so I got a job.