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Your skin color and socioeconomic status are irrelevant. You can talk openly about whatever you like. The fact that you don't understand how awful it is to tal

by slibhb 6y ago

Your skin color and socioeconomic status are irrelevant. You can talk openly about whatever you like. The fact that you don't understand how awful it is to talk about a "well-off white male mentality" is an indictment of you as a person. You've lost the plot completely and your worldview is characterized by comic levels of intolerance.

wpietri 6y ago
Ah yes. Ad hominems without any substance at all. As I expected. What you are experiencing is white fragility. You can read more about the phenomenon here: https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/view/249 https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/view/249 The truth is that when discussing societal power in the US, both race and socioeconomic status are hugely relevant. And have been since the founding of this country, when by law only well-off white men could vote. I understand facing that frankly makes some people, you included, uncomfortable to the point of irrationality. I suggest you get over it, as the issues are not going away.
- slibhb 6y ago
  The idea that there is a well-off white-male way of looking at the world ("To me it looks like a couple of well-off white guys...") is the idea that humans are concrete beings whose consciousnesses are determined by certain identity categories (socio-economic status, skin color, sex). You apparently don't think that your consciousness is determined by those categories. Just those of other well-off white-males. I have no patience for this stuff. I learned in kindergarten that this way of looking at the world is morally bankrupt. You have to treat people as individuals. For one thing, because that's how you view yourself, as someone singular. For another, because there is no way to quantify human behavior in terms of this or that category, no such theories exist. And finally, because the idea that a person can be summarized by socioeconomic status, sex, or skin color is associated with crimes against humanity. It's frankly embarrassing for me to see adults behaving as you do. And to drive home the point, your comeback is "you're white" and link Robin DiAngelo.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    If you have feelings in response to my views, that's fine. Good, even. But I think it's hilarious that out of one side of your mouth you argue for respecting individuals and their views while at the same time trying to shut me up about my views because of your white fragility. I don't think anybody's consciousness is "determined" by anything. But there are strong correlations. The language people speak, their religion, their customs, and many of their views are usually taken from the people around them growing up. That's the whole point of culture, after all: inter-generational transmission of non-genetic adaptation. Some of that cultural heritages is good, some bad. All of it should be consciously examined. But conscious thought is small and slow compared to our vast cultural inheritance, so it's inevitable that many of people's beliefs and behaviors will be unexamined. More so if they are "frankly embarrassed" by anybody doing that examination in their presence. I am not only a well-off white male. But I'm definitely those things, and they have had an influence. That's especially true in a society where well-off white men drew strong legal and cultural divisions between well-off white men and everybody else. Your unwillingness to examine whiteness is part of that culture. So if you are seriously concerned about crimes against humanity (hint: you probably aren't) you should really take some time to look at the cultural and ideological factors behind America's wide array of those. A good place to start: Who were the perpetrators of those crimes? If you can sit with that question for as long as 30 seconds, you might be ready to read Kendi's "Stamped from the Beginning" or Loewen's "Sundown Towns".
    - slibhb 6y ago
      It's a slip of the mask that your argument, again and again, is "you're white". Are you analyzing my prose to determine my skin color? I didn't say a thing about "respecting views". I support your right to spit your venom but I can criticize your racialist nonsense, which is all I'm doing. I never said you shouldn't be able to speak, only that you should be ashamed of what you've chosen to say. > I don't think anybody's consciousness is "determined" by anything. But there are strong correlations. The language people speak, their religion, their customs, and many of their views are usually taken from the people around them growing up. That's the whole point of culture, after all: inter-generational transmission of non-genetic adaptation. Yes, of course it's just a strong correlation. We've established that. As you said, it's all those other white males, not you. Of course this is all nonsense. There is no theory of culture. Culture exists, it affects behavior, but there is no theory that describes how, just garden-variety bigotry. You shift between banalities ("culture affects behavior") and clear statements about what constitutes a "white male mentality" as if you had a theory of culture or a theory of mentality. How else could you claim to know my skin color based on what I've written? Of course you have no theories, it's all bullshit. The fact that you cite pseudo-intellectual hucksters (Kendi, DiAngelo) is all that needs to be said about the trough you've been drinking from. If you want to find a better religion read the Bible.

by slibhb 6y ago

wpietri 6y ago

Ah yes. Ad hominems without any substance at all. As I expected. What you are experiencing is white fragility. You can read more about the phenomenon here: https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/view/249 https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/view/249 The truth is that when discussing societal power in the US, both race and socioeconomic status are hugely relevant. And have been since the founding of this country, when by law only well-off white men could vote. I understand facing that frankly makes some people, you included, uncomfortable to the point of irrationality. I suggest you get over it, as the issues are not going away.

slibhb 6y ago
The idea that there is a well-off white-male way of looking at the world ("To me it looks like a couple of well-off white guys...") is the idea that humans are concrete beings whose consciousnesses are determined by certain identity categories (socio-economic status, skin color, sex). You apparently don't think that your consciousness is determined by those categories. Just those of other well-off white-males. I have no patience for this stuff. I learned in kindergarten that this way of looking at the world is morally bankrupt. You have to treat people as individuals. For one thing, because that's how you view yourself, as someone singular. For another, because there is no way to quantify human behavior in terms of this or that category, no such theories exist. And finally, because the idea that a person can be summarized by socioeconomic status, sex, or skin color is associated with crimes against humanity. It's frankly embarrassing for me to see adults behaving as you do. And to drive home the point, your comeback is "you're white" and link Robin DiAngelo.
- wpietri 6y ago
  If you have feelings in response to my views, that's fine. Good, even. But I think it's hilarious that out of one side of your mouth you argue for respecting individuals and their views while at the same time trying to shut me up about my views because of your white fragility. I don't think anybody's consciousness is "determined" by anything. But there are strong correlations. The language people speak, their religion, their customs, and many of their views are usually taken from the people around them growing up. That's the whole point of culture, after all: inter-generational transmission of non-genetic adaptation. Some of that cultural heritages is good, some bad. All of it should be consciously examined. But conscious thought is small and slow compared to our vast cultural inheritance, so it's inevitable that many of people's beliefs and behaviors will be unexamined. More so if they are "frankly embarrassed" by anybody doing that examination in their presence. I am not only a well-off white male. But I'm definitely those things, and they have had an influence. That's especially true in a society where well-off white men drew strong legal and cultural divisions between well-off white men and everybody else. Your unwillingness to examine whiteness is part of that culture. So if you are seriously concerned about crimes against humanity (hint: you probably aren't) you should really take some time to look at the cultural and ideological factors behind America's wide array of those. A good place to start: Who were the perpetrators of those crimes? If you can sit with that question for as long as 30 seconds, you might be ready to read Kendi's "Stamped from the Beginning" or Loewen's "Sundown Towns".
  - slibhb 6y ago
    It's a slip of the mask that your argument, again and again, is "you're white". Are you analyzing my prose to determine my skin color? I didn't say a thing about "respecting views". I support your right to spit your venom but I can criticize your racialist nonsense, which is all I'm doing. I never said you shouldn't be able to speak, only that you should be ashamed of what you've chosen to say. > I don't think anybody's consciousness is "determined" by anything. But there are strong correlations. The language people speak, their religion, their customs, and many of their views are usually taken from the people around them growing up. That's the whole point of culture, after all: inter-generational transmission of non-genetic adaptation. Yes, of course it's just a strong correlation. We've established that. As you said, it's all those other white males, not you. Of course this is all nonsense. There is no theory of culture. Culture exists, it affects behavior, but there is no theory that describes how, just garden-variety bigotry. You shift between banalities ("culture affects behavior") and clear statements about what constitutes a "white male mentality" as if you had a theory of culture or a theory of mentality. How else could you claim to know my skin color based on what I've written? Of course you have no theories, it's all bullshit. The fact that you cite pseudo-intellectual hucksters (Kendi, DiAngelo) is all that needs to be said about the trough you've been drinking from. If you want to find a better religion read the Bible.