3 ms·

Thanks for linking to that. I’d never heard of that case before; that is so incredibly horrifying. They should be in jail right now for having a known psychotic

Thanks for linking to that. I’d never heard of that case before; that is so incredibly horrifying. They should be in jail right now for having a known psychotic patient sign an “informed consent” form. As an aside, there is such a long history of blatant unethical behavior and pseudoscientific medical procedures throughout the entire history of medicine (and especially so-called “public health” - take AZT as one tiny example), that it shocks me that people have this attitude of “oh yeah bloodletting and lobotomies and clitorectomedies and male circumcision as punishment for masturbation were wrong but everything’s fine now and there’s no giant institutional problems with the medical orthodoxy anymore”

caddemon 5y ago
It seems like the investigation didn't harp on it much, but honestly I think the biggest issue is the repeated warnings the patient might have been suicidal. I was helping out with data analysis for a psychiatry study that didn't even really involve an intervention (looking at how well vocal properties from daily audio clips predict clinical scales), and it was made very clear how imperative it was to act if we had any reason to believe the patient was at imminent risk for self harm. So it is crazy to me that they didn't unenroll the patient upon receiving that warning. If a patient threatened suicide in one of their recordings we would have to get in contact with their main doctor ASAP, and this is actually one of the things the IRB was concerned about - if we didn't review the recordings in a timely fashion but patients thought we did, it could mean a suicide threat gets missed that might not have otherwise. Refusing to change the treatment plan of a known suicidal patient because of a research study really is awful.

3 ms·

Thanks for linking to that. I’d never heard of that case before; that is so incredibly horrifying. They should be in jail right now for having a known psychotic

by __blockcipher__ 5y ago

caddemon 5y ago
It seems like the investigation didn't harp on it much, but honestly I think the biggest issue is the repeated warnings the patient might have been suicidal. I was helping out with data analysis for a psychiatry study that didn't even really involve an intervention (looking at how well vocal properties from daily audio clips predict clinical scales), and it was made very clear how imperative it was to act if we had any reason to believe the patient was at imminent risk for self harm. So it is crazy to me that they didn't unenroll the patient upon receiving that warning. If a patient threatened suicide in one of their recordings we would have to get in contact with their main doctor ASAP, and this is actually one of the things the IRB was concerned about - if we didn't review the recordings in a timely fashion but patients thought we did, it could mean a suicide threat gets missed that might not have otherwise. Refusing to change the treatment plan of a known suicidal patient because of a research study really is awful.