5 ms·

https://syndromictrends.com/metric/panel/rp/percent_positivity/organism/main https://syndromictrends.com/metric/panel/rp/percent_positivi... Unless I'm reading

https://syndromictrends.com/metric/panel/rp/percent_positivity/organism/main https://syndromictrends.com/metric/panel/rp/percent_positivi... Unless I'm reading that chart wrong it seems like flu went away but viruses that cause cold like symptoms stuck around. If masks/etc was super effective wouldn't you expect those to go down with influenza?

jvm_ 6y ago
It seems there's a battle between virus's, they don't like sharing resources and the 'strongest' wins. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56483445 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56483445 Coronavirus: How the common cold can boot out Covid Think of the cells in your nose, throat and lungs as being like a row of houses. Once a virus gets inside, it can either hold the door open to let in other viruses, or it can nail the door shut and keep its new home to itself. Influenza is one of the most selfish viruses around, and nearly always infects alone. Others, such as adenoviruses, seem to be more up for a houseshare. If rhinovirus and Sars-CoV-2 were released at the same time, only rhinovirus is successful. If rhinovirus had a 24-hour head start then Sars-CoV-2 does not get a look in. And even when Sars-CoV-2 had 24-hours to get started, rhinovirus boots it out. "Sars-CoV-2 never takes off, it is heavily inhibited by rhinovirus," Dr Pablo Murcia told BBC News. He added: "This is absolutely exciting because if you have a high prevalence of rhinovirus, it could stop new Sars-CoV-2 infections."
- Pyramus 6y ago
  It's very much disputed how much 'viral interference' was or is an influence in the current pandemic, and this effect (to my knowledge) has been only studied in animal models and human tissue [1], paper from the article [2]. Or to put it another way, the influenza season was already under way when SARS-Cov-2 hit in Feb 2020, but there is no indication the influenza virus slowed the SARS-Cov-2 pandemic. The exciting thing about viral interference is that no genetic similarity between the viruses is needed, however, the effect is only temporary (days to weeks) and limited. Unfortunately viral interference is also being misused as an 'alternative explanation' by folks that do not want to see the evidence that non-pharmacological interventions (hygiene, social distancing, quarantine, masks, large gatherings etc.) are effective against a whole host of respiratory diseases. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_interference [2] https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiab147/6179975 https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/inf...
- bsimpson 6y ago
  Begs the obvious question: could you intentionally infect someone with a mild, greedy virus to displace a more dangerous one?
  - postalrat 6y ago
    It seems possible. Timing would need to be right though so you would probably need to purposely infect that person with the dangerous one at the right time.
ceejayoz 6y ago
> If masks/etc was super effective wouldn't you expect those to go down with influenza? Viruses are not identical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinovirus > They are lytic in nature and are among the smallest viruses, with diameters of about 30 nanometers. By comparison, other viruses, such as smallpox and vaccinia, are around ten times larger at about 300 nanometers, while flu viruses are around 80–120 nm. Different virus sizes, different mask effectiveness. Anecdotally, my kids are in middle school, and every winter we get several colds. None this year.
- velosol 6y ago
  >Different virus sizes, different mask effectiveness. Not necessarily - when speaking and otherwise spreading aerosols they start out much larger than any virus particles contained within them and quickly dry out and shrink if in air (i.e. not caught in a mask) [1, 1um - 500um, between Table I & Fig 11]. If they were on their own, the small 'nanoparticle' regime (1-100nm) shows fairly good filtration in a variety of media [1st image in 3] thanks at least in part to the diffusion of particles through filter media. It's not the same by size by any means (with smaller often being the most passed particle size) but it varies with filter construction and treatment [3]. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061903/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061903/ [2]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00022470.1980.10464592 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00022470.1980.10... [3]: https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/56/5/568/159920 https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/56/5/568/159920
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    The larger point: You should not "expect" two different classes of viruses to act the same given a specific mitigation, as there can be substantial differences between them.
beowulfey 6y ago
I mean, if you look at May 2019 vs 2020 for the enterovirus/rhinoviruses on that chart, that's a drop from ~25% to ~3%; September went from 35% to 21%. So it's still a pretty solid decrease. I think it just wasn't nearly eradicated like influenza was because the prevalence is so high.
Kneecaps07 6y ago
I got a cold about two weeks ago and I'm only now almost recovered. I work at a hospital so got a COVID test to be safe, even though I'm fully vaccinated. They ran a respiratory panel as well. They called me with the results and I almost had to change my pants because they informed me I had "Coronavirus OC43.... which is essentially the common cold".
graeme 6y ago
They didn’t vanish but it looks like multiple other viruses shrank.
defaultname 6y ago
Each virus can only interact with certain cells of your body. COVID and influenza interact with lower respiratory cells. You have to inhale a viral load to be infected, or at least this is the consensus belief right now (and is contrary to all of the concern about fomites early on). Many cold-like viruses infect mucous membranes (you have a number over your body). A glancing touch is enough to be infected.
- clon 6y ago
  Do you have a reference for this? My SO still insists on washing our shopping, which, according to your information is totally unnecessary.
  - defaultname 6y ago
    I'm certainly not trying to present medical information on here, and no one should change behaviors based upon what I said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/08/do-you-still-need-wipe-down-grocery-store-takeout-boxes/5743240002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/08/do-you... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00869-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
giarc 6y ago
I'm not sure the source of that chart. The viruses contained in the Coronavirus category aren't even the SARS-CoV-2 that we call COVID. They list 4 strains, all of which are the regular circulating strains of coronavirus. I'd say this is not accurate at all.

jvm_ 6y ago

It seems there's a battle between virus's, they don't like sharing resources and the 'strongest' wins. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56483445 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56483445 Coronavirus: How the common cold can boot out Covid Think of the cells in your nose, throat and lungs as being like a row of houses. Once a virus gets inside, it can either hold the door open to let in other viruses, or it can nail the door shut and keep its new home to itself. Influenza is one of the most selfish viruses around, and nearly always infects alone. Others, such as adenoviruses, seem to be more up for a houseshare. If rhinovirus and Sars-CoV-2 were released at the same time, only rhinovirus is successful. If rhinovirus had a 24-hour head start then Sars-CoV-2 does not get a look in. And even when Sars-CoV-2 had 24-hours to get started, rhinovirus boots it out. "Sars-CoV-2 never takes off, it is heavily inhibited by rhinovirus," Dr Pablo Murcia told BBC News. He added: "This is absolutely exciting because if you have a high prevalence of rhinovirus, it could stop new Sars-CoV-2 infections."

Pyramus 6y ago
It's very much disputed how much 'viral interference' was or is an influence in the current pandemic, and this effect (to my knowledge) has been only studied in animal models and human tissue [1], paper from the article [2]. Or to put it another way, the influenza season was already under way when SARS-Cov-2 hit in Feb 2020, but there is no indication the influenza virus slowed the SARS-Cov-2 pandemic. The exciting thing about viral interference is that no genetic similarity between the viruses is needed, however, the effect is only temporary (days to weeks) and limited. Unfortunately viral interference is also being misused as an 'alternative explanation' by folks that do not want to see the evidence that non-pharmacological interventions (hygiene, social distancing, quarantine, masks, large gatherings etc.) are effective against a whole host of respiratory diseases. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_interference [2] https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiab147/6179975 https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/inf...
bsimpson 6y ago
Begs the obvious question: could you intentionally infect someone with a mild, greedy virus to displace a more dangerous one?
- postalrat 6y ago
  It seems possible. Timing would need to be right though so you would probably need to purposely infect that person with the dangerous one at the right time.

ceejayoz 6y ago

> If masks/etc was super effective wouldn't you expect those to go down with influenza? Viruses are not identical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinovirus > They are lytic in nature and are among the smallest viruses, with diameters of about 30 nanometers. By comparison, other viruses, such as smallpox and vaccinia, are around ten times larger at about 300 nanometers, while flu viruses are around 80–120 nm. Different virus sizes, different mask effectiveness. Anecdotally, my kids are in middle school, and every winter we get several colds. None this year.

velosol 6y ago
>Different virus sizes, different mask effectiveness. Not necessarily - when speaking and otherwise spreading aerosols they start out much larger than any virus particles contained within them and quickly dry out and shrink if in air (i.e. not caught in a mask) [1, 1um - 500um, between Table I & Fig 11]. If they were on their own, the small 'nanoparticle' regime (1-100nm) shows fairly good filtration in a variety of media [1st image in 3] thanks at least in part to the diffusion of particles through filter media. It's not the same by size by any means (with smaller often being the most passed particle size) but it varies with filter construction and treatment [3]. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061903/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061903/ [2]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00022470.1980.10464592 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00022470.1980.10... [3]: https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/56/5/568/159920 https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/56/5/568/159920
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  The larger point: You should not "expect" two different classes of viruses to act the same given a specific mitigation, as there can be substantial differences between them.

beowulfey 6y ago

I mean, if you look at May 2019 vs 2020 for the enterovirus/rhinoviruses on that chart, that's a drop from ~25% to ~3%; September went from 35% to 21%. So it's still a pretty solid decrease. I think it just wasn't nearly eradicated like influenza was because the prevalence is so high.

Kneecaps07 6y ago

I got a cold about two weeks ago and I'm only now almost recovered. I work at a hospital so got a COVID test to be safe, even though I'm fully vaccinated. They ran a respiratory panel as well. They called me with the results and I almost had to change my pants because they informed me I had "Coronavirus OC43.... which is essentially the common cold".

graeme 6y ago

They didn’t vanish but it looks like multiple other viruses shrank.

defaultname 6y ago

Each virus can only interact with certain cells of your body. COVID and influenza interact with lower respiratory cells. You have to inhale a viral load to be infected, or at least this is the consensus belief right now (and is contrary to all of the concern about fomites early on). Many cold-like viruses infect mucous membranes (you have a number over your body). A glancing touch is enough to be infected.

clon 6y ago
Do you have a reference for this? My SO still insists on washing our shopping, which, according to your information is totally unnecessary.
- defaultname 6y ago
  I'm certainly not trying to present medical information on here, and no one should change behaviors based upon what I said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/08/do-you-still-need-wipe-down-grocery-store-takeout-boxes/5743240002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/08/do-you... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00869-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

giarc 6y ago

I'm not sure the source of that chart. The viruses contained in the Coronavirus category aren't even the SARS-CoV-2 that we call COVID. They list 4 strains, all of which are the regular circulating strains of coronavirus. I'd say this is not accurate at all.