4 ms·

When I'm asked to find some phone or other technology for an elderly relative, I'm always concerned about the usability of devices. A lot of companies and peop

When I'm asked to find some phone or other technology for an elderly relative, I'm always concerned about the usability of devices. A lot of companies and people don't realy appreciate how much training is really needed to operate even the simplest of mobile phones. I've not really seen any solutions other than making buttons bigger and reducing menu options, I'm sure these are great for those with deteriorating eyesight, but they aren't really offering anything for a person who has never used a smartphone before. The real solution has to be usable by someone who has never operated _any_ modern technology - It has to be so simple you could maybe even train a dog to use. An idea of mine is to have a bank of "walkie talkies" - one for each person you wish to speak to. And this problem is always growing; my parents haven't retired yet, but even they are struggling to use today's on-demand television. What will happen when digital terrestrial TV is shut down and they have to learn to use whatever new interface is on the successor to the inevitably cancelled Android TV.

ISL 5y ago
The biggest problem we have faced, unfortunately, is the proliferation of modern security features. Chromebooks are awesome in many ways for the elderly, but the fact that you can't disable password entry at startup has been a dealbreaker for my aging father. He can't type easily and is beginning to struggle with passwords. Paradoxically, this means that he's still running his Ubuntu laptop (he has been using UNIX systems since a DEC Alpha) but getting left behind on a lot of accessibility features and has minimal support from nursing-home staff. Struggling with passwords has also meant that he is endlessly resetting passwords or creating new accounts, compounding confusion. It is a tricky set of problems, with no easy answers.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
  I have the same problem with my parents and I initially thought the Windows 10 pin screen was quite good for this. You only need 4 numbers, I set it to my birthdate and it's made things somewhat easier for them. That was until my mom phoned me telling me her keyboard was broken. Took me a while to diagnose that she was trying to enter letters into the pin-field and it gave no indication that you weren't supposed to do that, it just didn't input any characters. Also turns out the Windows account metaphor has gotten really confusing since they introduced microsoft accounts that are both local and online but don't necessarily share the same characteristics and now you have like 3 different passwords for the single "account" concept.
- mtrovo 5y ago
  I don't know which brand you looked at but I'm pretty sure Chromebooks support fingerprint login for some time now (check this HP support page for ChromeOS for instance [0]). But I agree with the overall tone of what you're saying and I have the same kind of problem with my parents. I think the movement away from common protocols just made it worse, before you could have a simplified client just for the elderly or any other "niche" group and it would work, now if you do something like this for Whatsapp or Instagram you would probably receive a cease and desist letter. [0] https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06917763 https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06917763
  - wanderingstan 5y ago
    FWIW, fingerprint login has never worked for my elderly parents. The combination of drier skin, shaky fingers, and poorer sense of pressure means they could never get it quite right. (And on iPhone, always ended up pressing the home button.) I’ve noticed in the last decade that my fingers too have less oil and I sometimes have to wet my finger.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  You might want to try him with a password manager.
  - boatsie 5y ago
    It seems tempting to solve technological problems with more technology, but my experience is more technology is more problems. The password manager will update/ask for updates. It will ask about auto fill or saving passwords, etc. The people with password understanding problems definitely don’t understand password management problems!
    - frereubu 5y ago
      1Password has worked well for my 90-year-old mother. I disabled the "ask to save password" option. If she needs a new account on something - which doesn't happen very often - I just use Screen Sharing (we both have Macs) and set it up for her. I also have her 1Password account syncing to mine. Although I do still get support phone calls when there's a glitch, it's worked out very well on balance, compared to the amount of support she needed before with account setup and not using the same password everywhere.
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        Syncing the passwords to your own computer so that you can set them up is a genius idea.
      - ISL 5y ago
        Unfortunately, Chromebooks also disable perpetual screen-sharing (in order to prevent very-real scam behavior), too. :-/.
- kawzeg 5y ago
  I know this idea is a little ridiculous, but it just popped into my head: what about using one of those rubber ducky USB keys that pretend they're a keyboard and enter certain keystrokes? You could have it enter the password when inserted. Or, perhaps a physical password manager that can store multiple passwords, with a labeled button for each?
  - ISL 5y ago
    I'll have to look into that -- it might work.
lacker 5y ago
A lot of companies and people don't really appreciate how much training is really needed to operate even the simplest of mobile phones. I completely agree, but at the same time it's funny that you can take a two-year-old without any formal technology training at all, accidentally leave an iPad where they can get it, and before long they're showing you gesture commands you didn't even know about.
- grok22 5y ago
  Yeah, this is something I too struggle to understand. A kid new to it quickly gets the basics of an iPad. But a grandma struggles with it. Maybe all their preconceived notions cause a mental barrier for some older folks in adopting new technology? Maybe it's just that people are variable in their adaptability and there probably will be kids too who find using an iPad really hard.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    I made a sister comment slightly after yours (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26983932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26983932), but I think it's also worth noting that the two-year-old probably comes to the iPad with the idea of playing with it and seeing what happens. It's easy to make something happen on an iPad, and the two-year-old is delighted by most of the responses. By contrast, someone older but less experienced to technology comes to the iPad with a specific goal in mind. Unlike toddlers, whose whole mission in life is to form an image of what to them is a uniformly mysterious world, these are smart people who don't want to have to learn a whole new paradigm to do one thing. Not only can they not do the thing they want; worse, the motion and lights that accompany their attempts are not delighting to them as to the two-year-old, but somewhere between distracting and unpleasant.
  - nerdponx 5y ago
    Maybe all their preconceived notions cause a mental barrier for some older folks in adopting new technology? I've observed this as well. The hardest part are the basic concepts. Examples: - The idea of a "settings menu" itself is somewhat of an alien concept and mostly limited to devices with screens. - Not all UI elements have obvious meanings if you aren't already used to them. - The input device itself might be unfamiliar (mouse, keyboard, touchscreen) and the user's brain might be busy trying to understand how to interact with the device at all, let alone do useful things with it. - Some users never learned the "why" or even the "what" of existing devices, only the "how" -- they don't understand concepts like "applications", they just follow very specific steps that someone laid out for accomplishing specific tasks. This makes it very difficult to discover functionality or adapt to a different UI, because they don't know what anything actually is in the first place.

ISL 5y ago

The biggest problem we have faced, unfortunately, is the proliferation of modern security features. Chromebooks are awesome in many ways for the elderly, but the fact that you can't disable password entry at startup has been a dealbreaker for my aging father. He can't type easily and is beginning to struggle with passwords. Paradoxically, this means that he's still running his Ubuntu laptop (he has been using UNIX systems since a DEC Alpha) but getting left behind on a lot of accessibility features and has minimal support from nursing-home staff. Struggling with passwords has also meant that he is endlessly resetting passwords or creating new accounts, compounding confusion. It is a tricky set of problems, with no easy answers.

ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
I have the same problem with my parents and I initially thought the Windows 10 pin screen was quite good for this. You only need 4 numbers, I set it to my birthdate and it's made things somewhat easier for them. That was until my mom phoned me telling me her keyboard was broken. Took me a while to diagnose that she was trying to enter letters into the pin-field and it gave no indication that you weren't supposed to do that, it just didn't input any characters. Also turns out the Windows account metaphor has gotten really confusing since they introduced microsoft accounts that are both local and online but don't necessarily share the same characteristics and now you have like 3 different passwords for the single "account" concept.
mtrovo 5y ago
I don't know which brand you looked at but I'm pretty sure Chromebooks support fingerprint login for some time now (check this HP support page for ChromeOS for instance [0]). But I agree with the overall tone of what you're saying and I have the same kind of problem with my parents. I think the movement away from common protocols just made it worse, before you could have a simplified client just for the elderly or any other "niche" group and it would work, now if you do something like this for Whatsapp or Instagram you would probably receive a cease and desist letter. [0] https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06917763 https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06917763
- wanderingstan 5y ago
  FWIW, fingerprint login has never worked for my elderly parents. The combination of drier skin, shaky fingers, and poorer sense of pressure means they could never get it quite right. (And on iPhone, always ended up pressing the home button.) I’ve noticed in the last decade that my fingers too have less oil and I sometimes have to wet my finger.
nicoburns 5y ago
You might want to try him with a password manager.
- boatsie 5y ago
  It seems tempting to solve technological problems with more technology, but my experience is more technology is more problems. The password manager will update/ask for updates. It will ask about auto fill or saving passwords, etc. The people with password understanding problems definitely don’t understand password management problems!
  - frereubu 5y ago
    1Password has worked well for my 90-year-old mother. I disabled the "ask to save password" option. If she needs a new account on something - which doesn't happen very often - I just use Screen Sharing (we both have Macs) and set it up for her. I also have her 1Password account syncing to mine. Although I do still get support phone calls when there's a glitch, it's worked out very well on balance, compared to the amount of support she needed before with account setup and not using the same password everywhere.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      Syncing the passwords to your own computer so that you can set them up is a genius idea.
    - ISL 5y ago
      Unfortunately, Chromebooks also disable perpetual screen-sharing (in order to prevent very-real scam behavior), too. :-/.
kawzeg 5y ago
I know this idea is a little ridiculous, but it just popped into my head: what about using one of those rubber ducky USB keys that pretend they're a keyboard and enter certain keystrokes? You could have it enter the password when inserted. Or, perhaps a physical password manager that can store multiple passwords, with a labeled button for each?
- ISL 5y ago
  I'll have to look into that -- it might work.

lacker 5y ago

A lot of companies and people don't really appreciate how much training is really needed to operate even the simplest of mobile phones. I completely agree, but at the same time it's funny that you can take a two-year-old without any formal technology training at all, accidentally leave an iPad where they can get it, and before long they're showing you gesture commands you didn't even know about.

grok22 5y ago
Yeah, this is something I too struggle to understand. A kid new to it quickly gets the basics of an iPad. But a grandma struggles with it. Maybe all their preconceived notions cause a mental barrier for some older folks in adopting new technology? Maybe it's just that people are variable in their adaptability and there probably will be kids too who find using an iPad really hard.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  I made a sister comment slightly after yours (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26983932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26983932), but I think it's also worth noting that the two-year-old probably comes to the iPad with the idea of playing with it and seeing what happens. It's easy to make something happen on an iPad, and the two-year-old is delighted by most of the responses. By contrast, someone older but less experienced to technology comes to the iPad with a specific goal in mind. Unlike toddlers, whose whole mission in life is to form an image of what to them is a uniformly mysterious world, these are smart people who don't want to have to learn a whole new paradigm to do one thing. Not only can they not do the thing they want; worse, the motion and lights that accompany their attempts are not delighting to them as to the two-year-old, but somewhere between distracting and unpleasant.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  Maybe all their preconceived notions cause a mental barrier for some older folks in adopting new technology? I've observed this as well. The hardest part are the basic concepts. Examples: - The idea of a "settings menu" itself is somewhat of an alien concept and mostly limited to devices with screens. - Not all UI elements have obvious meanings if you aren't already used to them. - The input device itself might be unfamiliar (mouse, keyboard, touchscreen) and the user's brain might be busy trying to understand how to interact with the device at all, let alone do useful things with it. - Some users never learned the "why" or even the "what" of existing devices, only the "how" -- they don't understand concepts like "applications", they just follow very specific steps that someone laid out for accomplishing specific tasks. This makes it very difficult to discover functionality or adapt to a different UI, because they don't know what anything actually is in the first place.