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I only considered Tesla for this reason, the superchargers work - the other options suck. Non Tesla EVs can still be nice EVs, but today they’re city cars. I

I only considered Tesla for this reason, the superchargers work - the other options suck. Non Tesla EVs can still be nice EVs, but today they’re city cars. I had a Fiat 500e before my Model 3, a great little EV (and absurdly cheap lease at ~$87/month) but I can take my Model 3 to Tahoe from the bay area easily and would never take the 500e there. I was hesitant to take the 500e from Palo Alto to SF.

codeulike 5y ago
Different in europe though, shorter distances and more chargers.
rootusrootus 5y ago
Eh, we roadtrip in our Bolt, it's fine. We roadtripped in the Tesla, it was fine too. To go to grandma's house, which was way out in the sticks, we'd stop for a charge on the way there, and once on the way back, in either car. The biggest difference is that there are more DC fast charging locations for non-Tesla EVs but they tend to have fewer chargers per location. Superchargers are less common but there are more chargers at each location. Both chargers have less than stellar reliability, but I'd give Tesla the overall edge there. But the third-party networks are growing much faster overall, and the quality of their infrastructure is improving dramatically as well. At some point in the next couple years I expect Tesla will need to find a way to allow their cars to take advantage of these other fast-charging options, to stay competitive.
- totheloop 5y ago
  Tesla vehicles already can, with adapters.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Maybe in Europe. In the USA they definitely cannot. At least mine couldn't. Sure, I could use the adapter to do level 2 charging, but there is no provision to use DC fast chargers other than superchargers. *exception being CHAdeMO, but those are becoming so rare now as to be not worth consideration.
- jsight 5y ago
  I think you are a little biased by having a vehicle (the Bolt) that can't do more than about 55kw. There are more DCFC for CCS, but most are limited to ~50kw or less with most vehicles. The only comparable network to Tesla is EA and they hope to be about 3/4s the size of Tesla's network by early 2022.
  - cptskippy 5y ago
    Is that in Europe? I didn't think CCS was very strong in the US, most charger are J1772.
    - jsight 5y ago
      No, the US has a large number of CCS combo 1 chargers. Its just that most are only 60kw or less, and will only do about 45kw on most cars due to amperage limitations. The big exception is Electrify America, which has about 600 sites now. Its good enough for many right now, though it isn't as deep or reliable as the Tesla Supercharger network.
      - cptskippy 5y ago
        It looks like the number of CCS Combo chargers is in the thousands in the US, somewhere just above CHademo. By comparison the J1772 chargers numbers in the many tens of thousands.
        jsight 5y ago
        That is correct. It would be almost 1:1 between CCS and CHAdeMO, but Electrify America only includes a single CHAdeMO cable per station. Most other networks are 1:1. Tesla supercharger coverage is pretty good with just over 1000 sites. EA coverage is actually pretty good too with just 600 sites. The # of sites needed for L3 in the short term isn't really that high. The number of plugs is important. I think EA averages 6 plugs per site, and Tesla is a little over 8 per site, with most new sites being 8 stall setups.

codeulike 5y ago

Different in europe though, shorter distances and more chargers.

rootusrootus 5y ago

Eh, we roadtrip in our Bolt, it's fine. We roadtripped in the Tesla, it was fine too. To go to grandma's house, which was way out in the sticks, we'd stop for a charge on the way there, and once on the way back, in either car. The biggest difference is that there are more DC fast charging locations for non-Tesla EVs but they tend to have fewer chargers per location. Superchargers are less common but there are more chargers at each location. Both chargers have less than stellar reliability, but I'd give Tesla the overall edge there. But the third-party networks are growing much faster overall, and the quality of their infrastructure is improving dramatically as well. At some point in the next couple years I expect Tesla will need to find a way to allow their cars to take advantage of these other fast-charging options, to stay competitive.

totheloop 5y ago
Tesla vehicles already can, with adapters.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Maybe in Europe. In the USA they definitely cannot. At least mine couldn't. Sure, I could use the adapter to do level 2 charging, but there is no provision to use DC fast chargers other than superchargers. *exception being CHAdeMO, but those are becoming so rare now as to be not worth consideration.
jsight 5y ago
I think you are a little biased by having a vehicle (the Bolt) that can't do more than about 55kw. There are more DCFC for CCS, but most are limited to ~50kw or less with most vehicles. The only comparable network to Tesla is EA and they hope to be about 3/4s the size of Tesla's network by early 2022.
- cptskippy 5y ago
  Is that in Europe? I didn't think CCS was very strong in the US, most charger are J1772.
  - jsight 5y ago
    No, the US has a large number of CCS combo 1 chargers. Its just that most are only 60kw or less, and will only do about 45kw on most cars due to amperage limitations. The big exception is Electrify America, which has about 600 sites now. Its good enough for many right now, though it isn't as deep or reliable as the Tesla Supercharger network.
    - cptskippy 5y ago
      It looks like the number of CCS Combo chargers is in the thousands in the US, somewhere just above CHademo. By comparison the J1772 chargers numbers in the many tens of thousands.
      - jsight 5y ago
        That is correct. It would be almost 1:1 between CCS and CHAdeMO, but Electrify America only includes a single CHAdeMO cable per station. Most other networks are 1:1. Tesla supercharger coverage is pretty good with just over 1000 sites. EA coverage is actually pretty good too with just 600 sites. The # of sites needed for L3 in the short term isn't really that high. The number of plugs is important. I think EA averages 6 plugs per site, and Tesla is a little over 8 per site, with most new sites being 8 stall setups.