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I don't really know anything about geology so apologies if this is a naive question: Is the effort to mine under the ocean predicated on the belief that we only

I don't really know anything about geology so apologies if this is a naive question: Is the effort to mine under the ocean predicated on the belief that we only have access to ~29% of the precious metals / diamonds etc. because that's just how much of earth's surface isn't underwater?

warmwaffles 5y ago
I know that mining methane hydrate off of the ocean floor has been a discussion. We would be wise to try and get that out and contain it / burn it before it is released into the atmosphere as pure methane.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  It's been forming there for a billion years. There's no hurry.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    The hurry is if warming temperatures cause it all to sublimate and release rapidly as gas, AKA the clathrate gun.
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      Its distribution is sparse and on the surface. Its been forming for a billion years. Conclusion: it's sublimating all the time and being replaced. If there's any danger, its from the billions of cubic meters under the ocean floor (the source of the nodules, seeping from underneath). More carbon than all the oil we ever burned in our civilization so far. Is that in any danger of accelerated release? I've not heard of that.
      - vkou 5y ago
        > Conclusion: it's sublimating all the time and being replaced. In the long-term, yes, it will eventually reach a steady state. In the long term, though, we'll all be dead. In the short-term, on timescales that human beings care about, no, we can release too much of it too quickly, before the system reaches a steady equilibrium. Methane has an atmospheric half-life measured in decades, so getting too much of it, too fast, can significantly spike temperatures.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - vegetablepotpie 5y ago
    Global warming is causing undersea methane to be released much faster than it has in the past. > For the second year in a row, his team have found crater-like pockmarks in the shallower parts of the Laptev Sea and East Siberian Sea that are discharging bubble jets of methane, which is reaching the sea surface at levels tens to hundreds of times higher than normal. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-gia...
tyingq 5y ago
There's this blurb from the company website: "Polymetallic nodules are lumps of minerals that range in size from just a few millimeters to tens of centimeters and are found in the abyssal areas of the oceans basins of the world. Known deposits are found in various quantities around a water depth of 3500 to 6000 meters. They lie on a relatively flat seafloor of soft sediment in a large surface area. It is estimated that the nodules present in the Clarion Clipperton Fracture Zone (CCFZ) contain more nickel (Ni), manganese (Mn) and cobalt (Co) than all land-based reserves combined. Furthermore, they contain significant amounts of copper (Cu) and molybdenum (Mo) (1)." https://www.deme-gsr.com/exploration/ https://www.deme-gsr.com/exploration/
jcranmer 5y ago
There are a few factors pushing it, I think: * There's thought to be several regions of the seabed where the mining operation can basically just scoop up the top layer and get economically extractable ore out of it. * The seabed is international waters, not under the jurisdiction of any country. I know UNCLOS does prescribe some rules for deep-sea mining, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the ambitions for mining here were based off of being able to dodge undesired (from the mining companies' perspective) national rules around mining, such as taxes or environmental regulations. * The ocean floor is a lot more of a dead zone than anything terrestrial. (That doesn't mean it's entirely dead). Again, I suspect many are hoping that environmental destructiveness in the seafloor goes much more unnoticed, because there's much less love for preserving microscopic Archaea species than fluffy birds or the like.
- sp332 5y ago
  It's true that it's in international waters, but there is an International Seabed Authority that administers the area. We can argue whether they should have allowed mining here, but it's not a naked land grab. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone
- mistrial9 5y ago
  without research, my feeling is that it is not a fertile place, but instead a resting place for foul substances and toxins that settle. So the damage is not like a tank running through a forest, rather it is more like stirring up a foul soup
  - sp332 5y ago
    Your intuition is rubbish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone
    - mistrial9 5y ago
      let's ask this fellow then: https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/soestwp/about/directory/craig-smith/ https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/soestwp/about/directory/craig-s... Is this a case where most people would expect nasty nothingness, and therefore the discovery of "creatures greater than 2cm" megafauna is "surprisingly diverse" ?
rsa4046 5y ago
The areas of the seafloor containing these nodules have some of the lowest sedimentation rates in the world ocean — this is why these deposits are exposed more or less at the sediment-water interface, and not buried in terrigenous sediment derived from land or surface pelagic calcifiers (plankton). Significant time in a geologically stable setting is also required for these oxides to form — their rate of formation is extremely slow.

warmwaffles 5y ago

I know that mining methane hydrate off of the ocean floor has been a discussion. We would be wise to try and get that out and contain it / burn it before it is released into the atmosphere as pure methane.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
It's been forming there for a billion years. There's no hurry.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  The hurry is if warming temperatures cause it all to sublimate and release rapidly as gas, AKA the clathrate gun.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Its distribution is sparse and on the surface. Its been forming for a billion years. Conclusion: it's sublimating all the time and being replaced. If there's any danger, its from the billions of cubic meters under the ocean floor (the source of the nodules, seeping from underneath). More carbon than all the oil we ever burned in our civilization so far. Is that in any danger of accelerated release? I've not heard of that.
    - vkou 5y ago
      > Conclusion: it's sublimating all the time and being replaced. In the long-term, yes, it will eventually reach a steady state. In the long term, though, we'll all be dead. In the short-term, on timescales that human beings care about, no, we can release too much of it too quickly, before the system reaches a steady equilibrium. Methane has an atmospheric half-life measured in decades, so getting too much of it, too fast, can significantly spike temperatures.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- vegetablepotpie 5y ago
  Global warming is causing undersea methane to be released much faster than it has in the past. > For the second year in a row, his team have found crater-like pockmarks in the shallower parts of the Laptev Sea and East Siberian Sea that are discharging bubble jets of methane, which is reaching the sea surface at levels tens to hundreds of times higher than normal. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-gia...

tyingq 5y ago

There's this blurb from the company website: "Polymetallic nodules are lumps of minerals that range in size from just a few millimeters to tens of centimeters and are found in the abyssal areas of the oceans basins of the world. Known deposits are found in various quantities around a water depth of 3500 to 6000 meters. They lie on a relatively flat seafloor of soft sediment in a large surface area. It is estimated that the nodules present in the Clarion Clipperton Fracture Zone (CCFZ) contain more nickel (Ni), manganese (Mn) and cobalt (Co) than all land-based reserves combined. Furthermore, they contain significant amounts of copper (Cu) and molybdenum (Mo) (1)." https://www.deme-gsr.com/exploration/ https://www.deme-gsr.com/exploration/

jcranmer 5y ago

There are a few factors pushing it, I think: * There's thought to be several regions of the seabed where the mining operation can basically just scoop up the top layer and get economically extractable ore out of it. * The seabed is international waters, not under the jurisdiction of any country. I know UNCLOS does prescribe some rules for deep-sea mining, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the ambitions for mining here were based off of being able to dodge undesired (from the mining companies' perspective) national rules around mining, such as taxes or environmental regulations. * The ocean floor is a lot more of a dead zone than anything terrestrial. (That doesn't mean it's entirely dead). Again, I suspect many are hoping that environmental destructiveness in the seafloor goes much more unnoticed, because there's much less love for preserving microscopic Archaea species than fluffy birds or the like.

sp332 5y ago
It's true that it's in international waters, but there is an International Seabed Authority that administers the area. We can argue whether they should have allowed mining here, but it's not a naked land grab. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone
mistrial9 5y ago
without research, my feeling is that it is not a fertile place, but instead a resting place for foul substances and toxins that settle. So the damage is not like a tank running through a forest, rather it is more like stirring up a foul soup
- sp332 5y ago
  Your intuition is rubbish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Fracture_Zone
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    let's ask this fellow then: https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/soestwp/about/directory/craig-smith/ https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/soestwp/about/directory/craig-s... Is this a case where most people would expect nasty nothingness, and therefore the discovery of "creatures greater than 2cm" megafauna is "surprisingly diverse" ?

rsa4046 5y ago

The areas of the seafloor containing these nodules have some of the lowest sedimentation rates in the world ocean — this is why these deposits are exposed more or less at the sediment-water interface, and not buried in terrigenous sediment derived from land or surface pelagic calcifiers (plankton). Significant time in a geologically stable setting is also required for these oxides to form — their rate of formation is extremely slow.