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In the article it is made very clear that what is being alleged is that it wasn't a democratic vote. What is being alleged is that Amazon threatened to close th

by Dobbs 5y ago

In the article it is made very clear that what is being alleged is that it wasn't a democratic vote. What is being alleged is that Amazon threatened to close the warehouse, and/or fire people based upon how they vote. Something that if I understand correctly is illegal, and even if not illegal is definitely not a democratic vote.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> If you read the article It's against the site rules here to suggest people haven't read the article - please don't do this. I was replying to a parent comment which said 'how can anyone oppose a union'. Some people legitimately don't want to have to deal with a union, for any of many reasons. For example because the union supports political goals they don't agree with, or because the union favours other employees over them, or they just don't want to have to deal with two overlords, neither of which may be working to their benefit. If they're asked and they say 'no thanks' then the union should just say 'ok thanks for letting us know' and leave them alone. There's a weird attitude amongst unions that there is no possible way anyone could not want to be represented by them. That leads them to accuse any vote against them of being illegitimate.
- Dobbs 5y ago
  Removed the reading the article bit. 1. OP says: unions are good they bring democracy into things. 2. You say: They had a democratic vote 3. I say: The article is alleging that they didn't have a democratic vote. Your comment is clearly stating that the vote was democratic, the unions lost, so we should move on. The entire article that this conversation is about is saying that the vote wasn't democratic and was coerced. My response stands, you can't just say "democratic vote, lets move on", because if the allegations are true then there wasn't a democratic vote.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    The OP is incredulous that anybody could not want to be in a union. My point is that some people legitimately do not want to be in a union, and there's nothing unfathomable about this, because they have many downsides. For example where I'm from if you were a Jewish supporter of the Green Party you may find it extremely offensive to have your union representatives promoting the Labour Party. So you may get a legitimate, democratic, decision to not let the union represent them. That's the point. Forget about tying it to this particular situation if you want to.
- Kneecaps07 5y ago
  In my state, you can no longer be forced to join a union. At my employer, there are something like 1000 people eligible to join the union. 99% of them are in the union. They often find the people that aren't in the union didn't join simply because they didn't know they could join. Yes, that's anecdotal, but I've been in two unions at two separate jobs and have literally never met anyone who wishes they weren't in it.

by Dobbs 5y ago

chrisseaton 5y ago

> If you read the article It's against the site rules here to suggest people haven't read the article - please don't do this. I was replying to a parent comment which said 'how can anyone oppose a union'. Some people legitimately don't want to have to deal with a union, for any of many reasons. For example because the union supports political goals they don't agree with, or because the union favours other employees over them, or they just don't want to have to deal with two overlords, neither of which may be working to their benefit. If they're asked and they say 'no thanks' then the union should just say 'ok thanks for letting us know' and leave them alone. There's a weird attitude amongst unions that there is no possible way anyone could not want to be represented by them. That leads them to accuse any vote against them of being illegitimate.

Dobbs 5y ago
Removed the reading the article bit. 1. OP says: unions are good they bring democracy into things. 2. You say: They had a democratic vote 3. I say: The article is alleging that they didn't have a democratic vote. Your comment is clearly stating that the vote was democratic, the unions lost, so we should move on. The entire article that this conversation is about is saying that the vote wasn't democratic and was coerced. My response stands, you can't just say "democratic vote, lets move on", because if the allegations are true then there wasn't a democratic vote.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  The OP is incredulous that anybody could not want to be in a union. My point is that some people legitimately do not want to be in a union, and there's nothing unfathomable about this, because they have many downsides. For example where I'm from if you were a Jewish supporter of the Green Party you may find it extremely offensive to have your union representatives promoting the Labour Party. So you may get a legitimate, democratic, decision to not let the union represent them. That's the point. Forget about tying it to this particular situation if you want to.
Kneecaps07 5y ago
In my state, you can no longer be forced to join a union. At my employer, there are something like 1000 people eligible to join the union. 99% of them are in the union. They often find the people that aren't in the union didn't join simply because they didn't know they could join. Yes, that's anecdotal, but I've been in two unions at two separate jobs and have literally never met anyone who wishes they weren't in it.