5 ms·

One analysis in a local newspaper was something that blew my mind: in the US your health insurance is tied to your employer?!. Just think about how absolutely i

One analysis in a local newspaper was something that blew my mind: in the US your health insurance is tied to your employer?!. Just think about how absolutely insane that is. Your boss has life or death power over you and your loved ones. Apparently that's how Amazon was able to threaten it's workers.

djbebs 6y ago
There is nothing stopping you from buying your own health insurance. You used to be able to go without, but thanks to Obama care that is now not an option, and you are forced to do business with insurers
- enkid 6y ago
  Imagine a world where being able to not have access to healthcare is a good thing.
  - IntelMiner 6y ago
    Americans always say it should be "their choice" and I just feel like I'm staring at an incomplete jigsaw puzzle Like. It's your choice to...go bankrupt or die from a treatable illness? I don't know what they expect non-Americans to draw from that line of reasoning
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - infamia 6y ago
      Before WWII, people in the U.S. bought catastrophic insurance and generally paid for their medical care out of pocket without much trouble. This kind of insurance was around $80/month or less in my state before Obamacare was implemented (it doubled after that). Before WWII, everyone simply paid for common Doctor visits and relied on their insurance for larger bills. After WWII, the US made gave employers tax incentives to provide insurance, which in hindsight was a huge mistake.
  - bongobingo 6y ago
    If you’re not American, it’s difficult to understand. However, insurance is an absolute scam in the US. You pay hundreds of dollars per month for the privilege of having to pay thousands of dollars before your insurance will start paying. For many families the monthly premiums could run over a thousand dollars, and the deductible could be $15,000. …or you could get some cheap catastrophic insurance, and pay cash for everything else. The cash price is generally less than half of the insurance price. Many people have done the math and concluded that they don’t need insurance.
    - rovr138 6y ago
      That’s also a VERY high premium AND deductible. Not saying it’s not out there, but they both are high.
      - bongobingo 6y ago
        The average premium for a family is over $1,000. The average family deductible is around $7,000. The numbers I quoted are high overall, but people absolutely pay those amounts. This topic of conversation is edge cases, anyway. The average person paying average costs wouldn’t likely be interested in going cash for healthcare.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        Here in upstate New York, my insurer's Bronze plans run about $1100/month for a family (https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/documents/538523/9578747/Excellus+Health+Plan_IND+ONX_Approved+Rate+Manual_EXHP-130053978.pdf/427e6254-4e75-45d4-85f7-e587f6e86dbb https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/documents/538523/9578747/Excellu...). That gets you a $10k family deductible, and a $13,100 max out-of-pocket. https://www.nyhealthinsurer.com/insurance/pdfs/plans/1319 https://www.nyhealthinsurer.com/insurance/pdfs/plans/1319 I pay $2,200 a month for a family Platinum plan, in order to get $0 deductible and $4k/year max OOP. The true cost of healthcare is masked for most, via their employer coverage - quite a few people seem to genuinely believe theirs costs just $20/month because that's the portion they directly pay. It's quite the scam on the American public.
- cool_dude85 6y ago
  This is untrue. There was a mild penalty for not having a qualifying insurance plan, but now no such penalty exists.
- Miner49er 6y ago
  I don't think this is true? It depends on several different things. If Amazon covers 100% of the insurance then they have to take it, or if it's in their employment contract that they have to take it, then they have to. Additionally, if they are paid a low enough emount that they qualify for government subsidies on health insurance, they can't get those if they deny the Amazon supplied insurance. Edit: I checked, and Amazon warehouse workers are paid little enough that they get the subsidies, so without them, I'm skeptical they could afford insurance, especially if they have a family. Finally, you can't switch any time, it can only be done during an open enrollment period or if you have a major life event like getting married, I think?
  - rovr138 6y ago
    > Finally, you can't switch any time, it can only be done during an open enrollment period or if you have a major life event like getting married, I think? I know you can’t change the policy, but I’m not sure about providers (like going from being in your jobs policy to going with a private one)
    - Miner49er 6y ago
      I don't think so, you can cancel any time, but even with private insurance, I don't think you can enroll anytime.
      - rovr138 6y ago
        I honestly haven’t had private insurance in maybe 10 years so I don’t know if and how things may have changed. And timing may also have simply worked out when I did. What’s horrible is, imagine being let go or quitting your job, not being able to afford COBRA (or whatever it’s called now) and then not even being able to signup for private insurance due to open enrollment period not lining up. . I follow some people in social media from when I worked at Starbucks. I saw recently someone saying they feel something on one hand and not the other. Someone commented that it was time for some home surgery and they agreed. I have no idea if they are serious or not, and that worries me. I would hope they’re joking, but with the state of things, who knows (and I honestly think if needed, they’d do it).
LatteLazy 6y ago
In fairness, that's because amazon gives its workers health insurance. Plenty of similar workers get nothing (Walmart for instance). More generally I agree this needs totally rethinking, but Democrats have been trying to do that for at least 20 years so it might be a list cause...
- rascul 6y ago
  > Plenty of similar workers get nothing (Walmart for instance). That doesn't seem to be the case. https://one.walmart.com/content/dam/themepage/pdfs/AssociateBenefitsBook-2020.pdf https://one.walmart.com/content/dam/themepage/pdfs/Associate...
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    As I understand it... You only get coverage if you work 30h a week (and pay for it, per your link). Walmart usually schedules people for fewer hours a week to avoid this. This is why (despite technically providing healthcare) Walmart is number one for employees enrolled in Medicaid [0]. Amazon's insurance kicks in at 20h a week [1] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-top-employers-of-medicaid-and-food-stamp-beneficiaries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-... [1] https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us

djbebs 6y ago

There is nothing stopping you from buying your own health insurance. You used to be able to go without, but thanks to Obama care that is now not an option, and you are forced to do business with insurers

enkid 6y ago
Imagine a world where being able to not have access to healthcare is a good thing.
- IntelMiner 6y ago
  Americans always say it should be "their choice" and I just feel like I'm staring at an incomplete jigsaw puzzle Like. It's your choice to...go bankrupt or die from a treatable illness? I don't know what they expect non-Americans to draw from that line of reasoning
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - infamia 6y ago
    Before WWII, people in the U.S. bought catastrophic insurance and generally paid for their medical care out of pocket without much trouble. This kind of insurance was around $80/month or less in my state before Obamacare was implemented (it doubled after that). Before WWII, everyone simply paid for common Doctor visits and relied on their insurance for larger bills. After WWII, the US made gave employers tax incentives to provide insurance, which in hindsight was a huge mistake.
- bongobingo 6y ago
  If you’re not American, it’s difficult to understand. However, insurance is an absolute scam in the US. You pay hundreds of dollars per month for the privilege of having to pay thousands of dollars before your insurance will start paying. For many families the monthly premiums could run over a thousand dollars, and the deductible could be $15,000. …or you could get some cheap catastrophic insurance, and pay cash for everything else. The cash price is generally less than half of the insurance price. Many people have done the math and concluded that they don’t need insurance.
  - rovr138 6y ago
    That’s also a VERY high premium AND deductible. Not saying it’s not out there, but they both are high.
    - bongobingo 6y ago
      The average premium for a family is over $1,000. The average family deductible is around $7,000. The numbers I quoted are high overall, but people absolutely pay those amounts. This topic of conversation is edge cases, anyway. The average person paying average costs wouldn’t likely be interested in going cash for healthcare.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      Here in upstate New York, my insurer's Bronze plans run about $1100/month for a family (https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/documents/538523/9578747/Excellus+Health+Plan_IND+ONX_Approved+Rate+Manual_EXHP-130053978.pdf/427e6254-4e75-45d4-85f7-e587f6e86dbb https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/documents/538523/9578747/Excellu...). That gets you a $10k family deductible, and a $13,100 max out-of-pocket. https://www.nyhealthinsurer.com/insurance/pdfs/plans/1319 https://www.nyhealthinsurer.com/insurance/pdfs/plans/1319 I pay $2,200 a month for a family Platinum plan, in order to get $0 deductible and $4k/year max OOP. The true cost of healthcare is masked for most, via their employer coverage - quite a few people seem to genuinely believe theirs costs just $20/month because that's the portion they directly pay. It's quite the scam on the American public.
cool_dude85 6y ago
This is untrue. There was a mild penalty for not having a qualifying insurance plan, but now no such penalty exists.
Miner49er 6y ago
I don't think this is true? It depends on several different things. If Amazon covers 100% of the insurance then they have to take it, or if it's in their employment contract that they have to take it, then they have to. Additionally, if they are paid a low enough emount that they qualify for government subsidies on health insurance, they can't get those if they deny the Amazon supplied insurance. Edit: I checked, and Amazon warehouse workers are paid little enough that they get the subsidies, so without them, I'm skeptical they could afford insurance, especially if they have a family. Finally, you can't switch any time, it can only be done during an open enrollment period or if you have a major life event like getting married, I think?
- rovr138 6y ago
  > Finally, you can't switch any time, it can only be done during an open enrollment period or if you have a major life event like getting married, I think? I know you can’t change the policy, but I’m not sure about providers (like going from being in your jobs policy to going with a private one)
  - Miner49er 6y ago
    I don't think so, you can cancel any time, but even with private insurance, I don't think you can enroll anytime.
    - rovr138 6y ago
      I honestly haven’t had private insurance in maybe 10 years so I don’t know if and how things may have changed. And timing may also have simply worked out when I did. What’s horrible is, imagine being let go or quitting your job, not being able to afford COBRA (or whatever it’s called now) and then not even being able to signup for private insurance due to open enrollment period not lining up. . I follow some people in social media from when I worked at Starbucks. I saw recently someone saying they feel something on one hand and not the other. Someone commented that it was time for some home surgery and they agreed. I have no idea if they are serious or not, and that worries me. I would hope they’re joking, but with the state of things, who knows (and I honestly think if needed, they’d do it).

LatteLazy 6y ago

In fairness, that's because amazon gives its workers health insurance. Plenty of similar workers get nothing (Walmart for instance). More generally I agree this needs totally rethinking, but Democrats have been trying to do that for at least 20 years so it might be a list cause...

rascul 6y ago
> Plenty of similar workers get nothing (Walmart for instance). That doesn't seem to be the case. https://one.walmart.com/content/dam/themepage/pdfs/AssociateBenefitsBook-2020.pdf https://one.walmart.com/content/dam/themepage/pdfs/Associate...
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  As I understand it... You only get coverage if you work 30h a week (and pay for it, per your link). Walmart usually schedules people for fewer hours a week to avoid this. This is why (despite technically providing healthcare) Walmart is number one for employees enrolled in Medicaid [0]. Amazon's insurance kicks in at 20h a week [1] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-top-employers-of-medicaid-and-food-stamp-beneficiaries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-... [1] https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us