3 ms·

These kind of rants have gone really old for me, like the person is stuck in 2009 at the golden age of Pitchfork/Vice/Hipster blogs... music elitism/criticism.

the-dude 5y ago
Except Ishkur is running his electronic music site since 2000. Which is basically since the beginning of time in internet terms.
- anthk 5y ago
  That's nothing. Spain, 1999: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk This was everywhere. Everywhere. People did their own remixes with computers at home. Everyone and their cat tried to do their first techno/trance song in High School. When "modern EDM" hit the US we have been listening to Techno/Trance since where, from 1992-1993? There were even official Techno/Trance remixes bought by everyone, too.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
    I really wish you'd stop with this smug condescension. You are utterly ignorant of the US music scene during this period, and in general, based on your comments. You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's because electronica in the US was entirely centered around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never became a "factory" product. But that doesn't mean we weren't listening to it. I grew up in Kansas in a smaller city. In high school we were going to jungle or trance parties just as often as grunge. All the big box book and music stores had substantial electronica sections. We discovered music at parties, via word of mouth, and by the latter half of the 90s, via the internet. People have been listening to techno in the US continuously since its inception in Detroit. But we've been listening to a whole lot of other electronica subgrenes as well. The kind of music in your link has never been popular with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal empty trash to be blunt. The closest to that style that's been popular here would be Oakenfold and the like. You also misunderstand hip hop in one of your comments. It is not just popular with black Americans. It's been popular with Americans of all sorts since its inception. In fact hip hop essentially subsumed pop in the late 90s. There's been a lot of exchange between hip hop and electronica in the US too, particularly due to both using the 808 a lot. The latest electronica fad, the revival of phonk, is another example. It's a fusion of trap with breakbeat techno. And it's yet another example of how electronica is fundamentally international, as the revival has been driven by russian producers like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbiKaOAN3Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbiKaOAN3Q I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with your smugness, but to be blunt all it's doing is making you look both ignorant and prejudiced.
    - anthk 5y ago
      >You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's because electronica in the US was entirely centered around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never became a "factory" product. So was Spain. People shared music with each other. Radio? pop and rhythm & blues everywhere in top charts. While people IRL got into the clubs everywhere. >The kind of music in your link has never been popular with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal empty trash to be blunt. Here we had several substyles. As I stated, Andalusians were more fans of breakbeat, while the North liked progressive/proto-hardbass in 1999-2001 and the East with Valencia and its "route" among Barcelona was the Techno-Trance heaven. Ibiza longly was, was, it is, and it will be, THE "chill-out/house" genre place from Spain. For obvious reasons: partying tourism and a "hippie" vibe since the 60's.
coldtea 5y ago
Because sarcasm and personal taste have gone out of style? Not to mention those things were a thing at the time of Lester Bangs or the NME, 50+ years ago (and even in reviewers of classical music) hardly a Pitchfork era phenomenon or invention....
- taneq 5y ago
  I find sarcasm and personal taste are at least somewhat negatively correlated... but then again I guess that's just my personal taste.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Is that sarcasm?
    - taneq 5y ago
      ...maybe? ;)
- tarsinge 5y ago
  I think that music defining one's identity and their lifestyle has kind of gone out of style. I just remember the late 00's/early 10's as crazy on judging people on what they listen (or they clothes, like Vice Do and Don't), not saying it didn't exist before. But maybe I'm a bit sensitive because I did go through that phase and it's still fresh... Also to add to this the more I lean to the content creation side and work with artists, the more genres become blurry and irrelevant. Seeing critics and the creator of that history tree obsess over this and create micro genres to try to fit every music and their listener into this is just silly and far removed from how a good composer or producer with eclectic tastes works. Nowadays a mainstream song can be surprisingly creative, while the N-th production in a "good taste approved sub-sub-genre of techno" will have 0 artistic value.
p1necone 5y ago
You know what annoys me 1000x more than elitism? People who are elitist about not being elitist. This is just some guys opinions on music, let him talk about them, you don't have to agree.
- tarsinge 5y ago
  There is nothing elitist, that's the point, I'm past defining myself and judging people through music taste.
rchaud 5y ago
I wish some of those humorous rants still existed. Music criticism now is so staid and boring. There are more paragraphs dedicated to the author's navel-gazing about their personal circumstances, than what the damn record sounds like. I even wish the elitism still existed. I used to go to Pitchfork, Coke Machine Glow and sites of that type to read about music that wasn't getting covered elsewhere. Now it's basically Rolling Stone, but worse because it pretends to be counter culture while devoting endless posts to TSwift or Drake or any number of artists that can be heard on every major radio station.
- yowlingcat 5y ago
  Don't get out your eulogies too prematurely -- let's not forget Anthony Fantano's meteoric rise in large part due to his Gordon Ramsay style critic rants! With that said, I do agree with your directional assessment, but I wonder if it's more due to economic and discovery forces (lower cost to production, discovery AND publication than ever before). That is to say -- I've found that while the sheer volume of mass-produced crap has gone up (including but not limited to music criticism), so too has the sheer volume of rare, underground jewels. I don't know if/maybe doubt discovery has been cracked yet.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    The Fantano phenomenon puzzles me. I have tried to watch his videos, but they're so boring. He looks into the camera for 10+ minutes just talking. There are never any cut-aways, or song clips, or on-screen graphics...anything to reduce the monotony. And yet he has a million subs and the comments section does include discussion of the record. It's not very deep, but it does exist. For me though, it's too boring. I'd read the review if he wrote articles, but definitely would not watch.
  - tarsinge 5y ago
    > so too has the sheer volume of rare, underground jewels This. As for discovery, it's never been easier to find things by oneself. Bandcamp (nice place to bootstrap rabbit holes), Spotify artists playlists, Youtube channels, Subreddits...

the-dude 5y ago

Except Ishkur is running his electronic music site since 2000. Which is basically since the beginning of time in internet terms.

anthk 5y ago
That's nothing. Spain, 1999: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk This was everywhere. Everywhere. People did their own remixes with computers at home. Everyone and their cat tried to do their first techno/trance song in High School. When "modern EDM" hit the US we have been listening to Techno/Trance since where, from 1992-1993? There were even official Techno/Trance remixes bought by everyone, too.
- jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
  I really wish you'd stop with this smug condescension. You are utterly ignorant of the US music scene during this period, and in general, based on your comments. You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's because electronica in the US was entirely centered around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never became a "factory" product. But that doesn't mean we weren't listening to it. I grew up in Kansas in a smaller city. In high school we were going to jungle or trance parties just as often as grunge. All the big box book and music stores had substantial electronica sections. We discovered music at parties, via word of mouth, and by the latter half of the 90s, via the internet. People have been listening to techno in the US continuously since its inception in Detroit. But we've been listening to a whole lot of other electronica subgrenes as well. The kind of music in your link has never been popular with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal empty trash to be blunt. The closest to that style that's been popular here would be Oakenfold and the like. You also misunderstand hip hop in one of your comments. It is not just popular with black Americans. It's been popular with Americans of all sorts since its inception. In fact hip hop essentially subsumed pop in the late 90s. There's been a lot of exchange between hip hop and electronica in the US too, particularly due to both using the 808 a lot. The latest electronica fad, the revival of phonk, is another example. It's a fusion of trap with breakbeat techno. And it's yet another example of how electronica is fundamentally international, as the revival has been driven by russian producers like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbiKaOAN3Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbiKaOAN3Q I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with your smugness, but to be blunt all it's doing is making you look both ignorant and prejudiced.
  - anthk 5y ago
    >You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's because electronica in the US was entirely centered around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never became a "factory" product. So was Spain. People shared music with each other. Radio? pop and rhythm & blues everywhere in top charts. While people IRL got into the clubs everywhere. >The kind of music in your link has never been popular with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal empty trash to be blunt. Here we had several substyles. As I stated, Andalusians were more fans of breakbeat, while the North liked progressive/proto-hardbass in 1999-2001 and the East with Valencia and its "route" among Barcelona was the Techno-Trance heaven. Ibiza longly was, was, it is, and it will be, THE "chill-out/house" genre place from Spain. For obvious reasons: partying tourism and a "hippie" vibe since the 60's.

coldtea 5y ago

Because sarcasm and personal taste have gone out of style? Not to mention those things were a thing at the time of Lester Bangs or the NME, 50+ years ago (and even in reviewers of classical music) hardly a Pitchfork era phenomenon or invention....

taneq 5y ago
I find sarcasm and personal taste are at least somewhat negatively correlated... but then again I guess that's just my personal taste.
- coldtea 5y ago
  Is that sarcasm?
  - taneq 5y ago
    ...maybe? ;)
tarsinge 5y ago
I think that music defining one's identity and their lifestyle has kind of gone out of style. I just remember the late 00's/early 10's as crazy on judging people on what they listen (or they clothes, like Vice Do and Don't), not saying it didn't exist before. But maybe I'm a bit sensitive because I did go through that phase and it's still fresh... Also to add to this the more I lean to the content creation side and work with artists, the more genres become blurry and irrelevant. Seeing critics and the creator of that history tree obsess over this and create micro genres to try to fit every music and their listener into this is just silly and far removed from how a good composer or producer with eclectic tastes works. Nowadays a mainstream song can be surprisingly creative, while the N-th production in a "good taste approved sub-sub-genre of techno" will have 0 artistic value.

p1necone 5y ago

You know what annoys me 1000x more than elitism? People who are elitist about not being elitist. This is just some guys opinions on music, let him talk about them, you don't have to agree.

tarsinge 5y ago
There is nothing elitist, that's the point, I'm past defining myself and judging people through music taste.

rchaud 5y ago

I wish some of those humorous rants still existed. Music criticism now is so staid and boring. There are more paragraphs dedicated to the author's navel-gazing about their personal circumstances, than what the damn record sounds like. I even wish the elitism still existed. I used to go to Pitchfork, Coke Machine Glow and sites of that type to read about music that wasn't getting covered elsewhere. Now it's basically Rolling Stone, but worse because it pretends to be counter culture while devoting endless posts to TSwift or Drake or any number of artists that can be heard on every major radio station.

yowlingcat 5y ago
Don't get out your eulogies too prematurely -- let's not forget Anthony Fantano's meteoric rise in large part due to his Gordon Ramsay style critic rants! With that said, I do agree with your directional assessment, but I wonder if it's more due to economic and discovery forces (lower cost to production, discovery AND publication than ever before). That is to say -- I've found that while the sheer volume of mass-produced crap has gone up (including but not limited to music criticism), so too has the sheer volume of rare, underground jewels. I don't know if/maybe doubt discovery has been cracked yet.
- rchaud 5y ago
  The Fantano phenomenon puzzles me. I have tried to watch his videos, but they're so boring. He looks into the camera for 10+ minutes just talking. There are never any cut-aways, or song clips, or on-screen graphics...anything to reduce the monotony. And yet he has a million subs and the comments section does include discussion of the record. It's not very deep, but it does exist. For me though, it's too boring. I'd read the review if he wrote articles, but definitely would not watch.
- tarsinge 5y ago
  > so too has the sheer volume of rare, underground jewels This. As for discovery, it's never been easier to find things by oneself. Bandcamp (nice place to bootstrap rabbit holes), Spotify artists playlists, Youtube channels, Subreddits...