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Classic history tree of electronic music : http://music.ishkur.com/ http://music.ishkur.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26212706 https://news.ycombin
by the-dude 6y ago
Classic history tree of electronic music : http://music.ishkur.com/ http://music.ishkur.com/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26212706 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26212706
- andruby 6y agoDo you happen to know if the old version of "Ishkur's guide to electronic music" is still available somewhere? IIRC it was a flash site with mostly music bubbles. It opened me up to fringe music genre's like Italo, Acid Jazz and Ghetto Tech.
- tern 6y agoI believe it's here, but of course you need Flash http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ Another favorite is Ishkur's "trancecracker" comic, which you can find here: https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245900 https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245900
- monocasa 6y agoThat comic is the funniest fucking thing I've seen in a long time. I was literally just making the argument with my friends who were going "oh, I wish Tiesto was still playing trance; he turned his back on the trance scene" to which I responded "Tiesto was never a trance DJ, he was a mainstage DJ. He's still a mainstage DJ, and you don't get on the mainstage playing trance anymore".
- HKH2 6y agoYou don't get on the main stage without words/lyrics. Also, any musician that wants to get big should know that the fastest way is to add words/lyrics. Music is such a universal language that it needs to be annotated or something.
- circlefavshape 6y ago> Also, any musician that wants to get big should know that the fastest way is to add words/lyrics Ahem. I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that
- MagnumOpus 6y agoIt's not though. In the last 50 years, you can probably count the number of chart-toppers without lyrics on one hand. Animals, Axel F, Doop, Flat Beat, and Sandstorm (and I am not sure if these even topped charts everywhere). Sure, if you are into the niche of EDM or techno club music, the situation is different, but none of those tunes sell millions of copies.
- circlefavshape 6y agoIt is though. The number of non-chart-toppers with lyrics is beyond counting. You don't make yourself a chart-topper simply by writing music with lyrics
- HKH2 6y agoOkay, it's almost always necessary but not sufficient.
- HKH2 6y agoI probably could've worded it a bit better. The point is you could spend hours actually developing subtleties in engineering, especially in timing and mixing, to produce something profound. Or you could get a drum machine and a 303, and get someone sexy to sing/rap/speak over the top, make a video, and save a lot of time. A lot of pop music these days is quite simple, except for the singing, which I can admit is talented, but it's more about personality/fashion than music.
- monocasa 6y agoMainstage is a specific genre of EDM, ironically known for being particularly transparent and banal these days. Some of the most likely to have lyrics that are basically just another beat track, IMO, if they have them at all. Trance ironically enough (including a lot of the stuff Tiesto worked on) is known for having very deep lyrics and that's a good chunk of what people are missing I think when they make the comments like above. I'd check out Beautiful Things by Andain if you're curious. The lyrics are about a woman who believes she gave up her life and potential to be a traditional wife and is contemplating suicide to end her regret.
- cpach 6y agoLove that comic, first saw it like 15 years ago or so (^_^)
- radley 6y agoActually, he definitely was a trance DJ. I remember when his first single was released. He understood how to make simple melodies with hooks which a lot of us respected. Over time, he learned how to make "epic" trance hooks that help pioneered the rise of the EDM genre. Mainstage antics are part of performance. Check out every mainstream genre before EDM. Van Halen Jump is probably my fav example :)
- monocasa 6y agoMy point was that he played trance because that got you on the mainstage (particularly in 2000 era Netherlands), and as soon as other genres were played on the mainstage he switched. There's plenty of even trance without mainstage antics. I'm mainly being pithy more than anything else, lol.
- cpach 6y agoI haven’t used a Flash site for ages but I guess it would not be impossible to run it in a VM somehow.
- spiralx 6y agoOh thanks, I remember laughing at that comic 15 years ago or so, back when I had "trance sucks" as an avatar on at least one dance music-related forum :) The fact that it's originally a Jack Chick tract about how evil Muslims are makes it even better lol.
- radley 6y agoHeh... KLF worship
- omnibrain 6y agoIt's part of BlueMaxima's Flashpoint: https://bluemaxima.org/flashpoint/ https://bluemaxima.org/flashpoint/
- andruby 6y agoThank you. Installed it and enjoyed listening to the carefully cut loops :)
- ahurmazda 6y agoIts easy to miss but descriptions of the different genres are the true mvp. Some of the saltiest things I have read, true hilarity. E.g `Eurotrance`: > "The rank repugnance of the self-fellating culture of DJ worship is at the forefront of this many-headed hydra of rapacious rot. Overbearing anthems, boring breakdowns, and tasteless DJ vanity have combined into one monstrous, obnoxious, pompous, unlistenable Babylonian nega-demon. Who is to blame for unleashing such a hideous beast of seething filth upon our ears?"
- DyslexicAtheist 6y agomost brilliant thing I've seen this week. I want to see feedback like this as the top comments of every "Show HN" :D
- matt_j 6y agoSalty, but not wrong!
- jasondoty 6y agoThe descriptions are salty at every genre that is even somewhat popular. God forbid people actually enjoying the music without being under influence of several drugs
- skrebbel 6y agoYou're mixing up "you shouldn't like this" with "I don't like this". The site is basically one very elaborate opinion piece. Ishkur doesn't like Eurotrance. Deal with it.
- tarsinge 6y agoThese kind of rants have gone really old for me, like the person is stuck in 2009 at the golden age of Pitchfork/Vice/Hipster blogs... music elitism/criticism.
- the-dude 6y agoExcept Ishkur is running his electronic music site since 2000. Which is basically since the beginning of time in internet terms.
- thu2111 6y agoIs it me or is drum and bass entirely missing from that site? Not sure you can have a real history tree of electronic music that misses it out.
- atlanta90210 6y agoLong live Drum and Bass and jungle. Drum and Bass day was this month. It is tough being a fan in the US when the kings of DnB all live in the UK. Can’t wait for Fabric to reopen - its time for a visit.
- thinkmassive 6y agoIf you visit Denver be sure to visit the Black Box. They’re a dnb-focused venue and have an excellent sound system for such a small place. https://blackboxdenver.co/ https://blackboxdenver.co/
- bane 6y agoNo, it's a major branch of the tree near the top.
- thu2111 6y agoI'm a big DNB fan but I don't recognise any of the terms at the top tbh. Ghetto Tech and "Moombahton" aren't words that ever crossed my radar. I definitely don't see the words "drum and bass" anywhere there, which is a pity.
- twelvechairs 6y agoNeither this or OPs seem to give any acknowledgement to Japanese pinoeers (particularly YMO and its members)
- ratww 6y agoNo, there's a long paragraph about YMO in "Electro" and some of their songs are played in "Synthpop".
- yowlingcat 6y agoImmediately did a Ctrl-F to see if Ishkur's guide had been mentioned on this thread and was not disappointed. As sassy as it is, the deep relational depth and exhaustive Ishkur put into making sense of the whole history of electronic music (and really the /whole/ history -- right back to its origins in musique concrete) made a really big impression on me as a teenager. It's probably a large part of what made me get a double major in music in college.
- globular-toast 6y agoThe original Ishkur's Guide is one of those Flash projects now lost to time. This new one is OK, but doesn't come close to the original for me. I always loved electronic music, even as a kid. In the UK we regularly had tracks (trance especially) crossover into the charts. But before Ishkur's Guide I didn't really know what I was listening to. It opened up the door to a whole world of music for me.
- abrookewood 6y agoThanks for the Ishkur link - that site is incredible. Just spent two hours strolling down memory lane.
- seanalexander 6y agoThat's a bit off the mark. Ishkur's guide is a comedic masterpiece. No one considers it an adequate historical reference.