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Lots of amazing work is being done in Egypt right now most of it IMHO being done by Geologists because they are much less likely to have any attachment towards

Lots of amazing work is being done in Egypt right now most of it IMHO being done by Geologists because they are much less likely to have any attachment towards any established theory. Zawi Hawass seems to have contempt for anyone who comes to conclusions that doesn't align with the gated narrative even when those conclusion are very well reasoned (For example: water erosion around the Sphinx). The official narrative that we were all taught in school of "Pyramids were built 4500 years ago as tombs by Khufu" I would say is understood to be highly inaccurate at this point by anyone outside of the Hawass circle.

generalizations 5y ago
> The official narrative that we were all taught in school of "Pyramids were built 4500 years ago as tombs by Khufu" I would say is understood to be highly inaccurate at this point by anyone outside of the Hawass circle. I never heard of that before. What is thought to be more accurate?
- sintaxi 5y ago
  First of all, nobody knows who built them, how they were built, nor why they were built. We only have vague guesses at this point. No bodies were ever found in any of the Pyramids on the Giza plateau - and despite the Egyptians documenting everything, there are no claims by them that Khufu or anyone else in their documented history built the Pyramids. Pharaohs were buried in the Valley of the Kings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_the_Kings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_the_Kings
  - jhgb 5y ago
    Uh, the Valley of the Kings was only actively used for a comparatively short period throughout Egypt's entire history. What does it have to do with this? What do you think Egyptians did with their kings before the Valley of the Kings was established and after it ceased to be used? > First of all, nobody knows who built them, how they were built, nor why they were built. > and despite the Egyptians documenting everything, there are no claims by them that Khufu or anyone else in their documented history built the Pyramids. https://www.livescience.com/55439-ancient-logbook-on-great-pyramid-unveiled.html https://www.livescience.com/55439-ancient-logbook-on-great-p... > Over a period of several months, [the logbook] reports — in [the] form of a timetable with two columns per day — many operations related to the construction of the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza and the work at the limestone quarries on the opposite bank of the Nile I guess this Merer guy is one of those you were looking for.
    - sintaxi 5y ago
      1) There are hundreds of Pyramids in that area. To my understanding no bodies were found in any of them. 2) Gold and copper are the metals available during Khufu's reign. Is it reasonable to you that copper (or even Iron) was used to cut granite? 3) 2.5 Million blocks were used in the construction of the Great Pyramid. Weight of blocks range from 1-10 tons each. 4) The granite for the "King's Chamber" was brought 934km to Giza from Aswan 5) A 20 year construction timeline as claimed would mean a block would have to be cut from the quarry, moved to location, and placed in the correct spot every 4 minutes with construction running 24 hours a day 7 days a week without stopping. Is it not more reasonable to conclude Khufu simply performed maintenance on the outer casings? A 20 year project with a 200 men crew to polish outer casings seems about right to me.
      - jhgb 5y ago
        I'm beginning to get serious crackpot vibes from your comments. Why is it surprising that looted tombs after thousands of years don't contain bodies? (Even though for example the presumed mummy of Djedkare Isesi was found in his pyramid, so "no bodies were found in any of them" is simply a lie.) What has gold and copper have to do with working hard stones? What is it with the Great Pyramid blocks? They are far from the largest blocks manipulated in prehistory. > Is it not more reasonable to conclude Khufu simply performed maintenance on the outer casings? No, it's not. > A 20 year project with a 200 men crew to polish outer casings seems about right to me. Nobody claims the pyramids were built by 200 people. Egypt had a population of over a million at the time, with a few hundred thousand of that population being seasonally bored farmers available for construction projects.
        sintaxi 5y ago
        1) Looters don't reseal pyramids. 2) Archeologists who unseal pyramids don't steal bodies and then simultaneously claim there were bodies in there. That would be self incriminating. 3) If pyramids were looted and found unsealed then the tomb theory is unsubstantiated. 4) Countless civilizations have done construction on the pyramids (including our own). Evidence of construction is not evidence of creation. 5) Copper & Brass can not reasonably be used to cut Granite. The Great Pyramid had impeccable precision. It is BY FAR the most precise Pyramid ever discovered. 6) The link you provided me is where the 200 men figure comes from. You clearly have an interest in this topic. I suggest you do more research or if I'm wrong about something, be so kind as to provide supporting evidence with your claims.
  - wl 5y ago
    Few mummies from the Old Kingdom survive. It was probably a combination of comparatively few people being mummified in that era, the mummification process being immature and thus less effective, and extreme age allowing for more looting and decay. It's unsurprising that you wouldn't find bodies in an Old Kingdom tomb. Tellingly, the pyramids at Giza contain the same simple, unadorned carved granite sarcophagi you find in other Old Kingdom tombs. If the pyramids weren't intended to be tombs, you need to explain why they'd place sarcophagi inside them or explain how the sarcophagi are really something else. Kings and nobles weren't buried in the Valley of the Kings until the New Kingdom. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the Old Kingdom.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      The Serapeum of Saqqara, 5 mi away, is full of empty stone sarcophagus-shaped boxes with 10-ton lids, not apparently looted. They are among the mysteries that must await Hawass's retirement to explore properly. AFAIK, nobody knows when or how they were made, or moved into place.
      - wl 5y ago
        The Serapeum of Saqqara is a New Kingdom site at the earliest. (The name, suggesting a Greco-Roman context, is due to later activity at the site.) I'm not sure why you're bringing them up in an Old Kingdom context. And the decorated "sarcophagus-shaped boxes" are nothing like the Old Kingdom examples. For one, the empty Saqqara sarcophagi are inscribed with standard funerary texts we have no problems reading whereas the Old Kingdom examples are much more crudely constructed and entirely unadorned. It's curious the Saqqara sarcophagi are empty, but given the texts inscribed, the simplest explanation is that they just were never used.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        The inscriptions were very obviously not done in the same physical culture as produced the boxes. The boxes are marvels that could not be produced even by the best modern stonecraft methods. The inscriptions are crude hammerings; one might equally-well equate genetic engineering with tattooing. Nobody knows how old the boxes are, or the tunnels they are in. All that is clear is that later people used the site.

generalizations 5y ago

> The official narrative that we were all taught in school of "Pyramids were built 4500 years ago as tombs by Khufu" I would say is understood to be highly inaccurate at this point by anyone outside of the Hawass circle. I never heard of that before. What is thought to be more accurate?

sintaxi 5y ago
First of all, nobody knows who built them, how they were built, nor why they were built. We only have vague guesses at this point. No bodies were ever found in any of the Pyramids on the Giza plateau - and despite the Egyptians documenting everything, there are no claims by them that Khufu or anyone else in their documented history built the Pyramids. Pharaohs were buried in the Valley of the Kings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_the_Kings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_the_Kings
- jhgb 5y ago
  Uh, the Valley of the Kings was only actively used for a comparatively short period throughout Egypt's entire history. What does it have to do with this? What do you think Egyptians did with their kings before the Valley of the Kings was established and after it ceased to be used? > First of all, nobody knows who built them, how they were built, nor why they were built. > and despite the Egyptians documenting everything, there are no claims by them that Khufu or anyone else in their documented history built the Pyramids. https://www.livescience.com/55439-ancient-logbook-on-great-pyramid-unveiled.html https://www.livescience.com/55439-ancient-logbook-on-great-p... > Over a period of several months, [the logbook] reports — in [the] form of a timetable with two columns per day — many operations related to the construction of the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza and the work at the limestone quarries on the opposite bank of the Nile I guess this Merer guy is one of those you were looking for.
  - sintaxi 5y ago
    1) There are hundreds of Pyramids in that area. To my understanding no bodies were found in any of them. 2) Gold and copper are the metals available during Khufu's reign. Is it reasonable to you that copper (or even Iron) was used to cut granite? 3) 2.5 Million blocks were used in the construction of the Great Pyramid. Weight of blocks range from 1-10 tons each. 4) The granite for the "King's Chamber" was brought 934km to Giza from Aswan 5) A 20 year construction timeline as claimed would mean a block would have to be cut from the quarry, moved to location, and placed in the correct spot every 4 minutes with construction running 24 hours a day 7 days a week without stopping. Is it not more reasonable to conclude Khufu simply performed maintenance on the outer casings? A 20 year project with a 200 men crew to polish outer casings seems about right to me.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      I'm beginning to get serious crackpot vibes from your comments. Why is it surprising that looted tombs after thousands of years don't contain bodies? (Even though for example the presumed mummy of Djedkare Isesi was found in his pyramid, so "no bodies were found in any of them" is simply a lie.) What has gold and copper have to do with working hard stones? What is it with the Great Pyramid blocks? They are far from the largest blocks manipulated in prehistory. > Is it not more reasonable to conclude Khufu simply performed maintenance on the outer casings? No, it's not. > A 20 year project with a 200 men crew to polish outer casings seems about right to me. Nobody claims the pyramids were built by 200 people. Egypt had a population of over a million at the time, with a few hundred thousand of that population being seasonally bored farmers available for construction projects.
      - sintaxi 5y ago
        1) Looters don't reseal pyramids. 2) Archeologists who unseal pyramids don't steal bodies and then simultaneously claim there were bodies in there. That would be self incriminating. 3) If pyramids were looted and found unsealed then the tomb theory is unsubstantiated. 4) Countless civilizations have done construction on the pyramids (including our own). Evidence of construction is not evidence of creation. 5) Copper & Brass can not reasonably be used to cut Granite. The Great Pyramid had impeccable precision. It is BY FAR the most precise Pyramid ever discovered. 6) The link you provided me is where the 200 men figure comes from. You clearly have an interest in this topic. I suggest you do more research or if I'm wrong about something, be so kind as to provide supporting evidence with your claims.
- wl 5y ago
  Few mummies from the Old Kingdom survive. It was probably a combination of comparatively few people being mummified in that era, the mummification process being immature and thus less effective, and extreme age allowing for more looting and decay. It's unsurprising that you wouldn't find bodies in an Old Kingdom tomb. Tellingly, the pyramids at Giza contain the same simple, unadorned carved granite sarcophagi you find in other Old Kingdom tombs. If the pyramids weren't intended to be tombs, you need to explain why they'd place sarcophagi inside them or explain how the sarcophagi are really something else. Kings and nobles weren't buried in the Valley of the Kings until the New Kingdom. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the Old Kingdom.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    The Serapeum of Saqqara, 5 mi away, is full of empty stone sarcophagus-shaped boxes with 10-ton lids, not apparently looted. They are among the mysteries that must await Hawass's retirement to explore properly. AFAIK, nobody knows when or how they were made, or moved into place.
    - wl 5y ago
      The Serapeum of Saqqara is a New Kingdom site at the earliest. (The name, suggesting a Greco-Roman context, is due to later activity at the site.) I'm not sure why you're bringing them up in an Old Kingdom context. And the decorated "sarcophagus-shaped boxes" are nothing like the Old Kingdom examples. For one, the empty Saqqara sarcophagi are inscribed with standard funerary texts we have no problems reading whereas the Old Kingdom examples are much more crudely constructed and entirely unadorned. It's curious the Saqqara sarcophagi are empty, but given the texts inscribed, the simplest explanation is that they just were never used.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        The inscriptions were very obviously not done in the same physical culture as produced the boxes. The boxes are marvels that could not be produced even by the best modern stonecraft methods. The inscriptions are crude hammerings; one might equally-well equate genetic engineering with tattooing. Nobody knows how old the boxes are, or the tunnels they are in. All that is clear is that later people used the site.