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> There is no doubt that America needs to get much better at rail and other mass transit and that there is a lot to be learned from the rest of the world. No d

> There is no doubt that America needs to get much better at rail and other mass transit and that there is a lot to be learned from the rest of the world. No doubt? I have doubts. Does America need to have better rails? I highly doubt it. If we can speed up existing rails without building new rails, that would be nice. Building new rails? Why don't we just improve air travel? Does America need to have better mass transit? I am not sure. I know there are lots of people on NH love mass transit, but I am not a fan of it. And many Americans don't like it either, because mass transit has its disadvantages (1. do not directly bring you from point A to B, 2. difficult to travel with kids, 3. difficult to go to stations in bad weather, 4. can't bring lots of stuff with you, 5. have to check time schedule, etc. etc.). Maybe improve personal vehicle is the way to go? Lots of people here are against Uber, but do you want to think about how to improve the taxi system, instead of blaming Uber?

astrange 6y ago
You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. On the other hand, you have to find parking everywhere you drive a car, which is very expensive to provision. Plus someone can break into it and steal all the stuff you're carting everywhere.
- dagw 6y ago
  You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. Depends very much on where you are going. I live in a European city with pretty good transit so if I'm going to or around the city center, then sure there is a bus every few minutes[1]. However If I'm going to visit my in-laws a few suburbs out, that train leaves once an hour if traveling at off peak times (like Sunday afternoon when I normally go). If I'm going to visit my parents (3.5 hour drive away) that train leave twice a day. [1] Although with COVID being what it is I haven't been on public transport for over a year and have to admit that driving everywhere is actually quicker and easier in almost every case at the moment.
barbazoo 6y ago
> Why don't we just improve air travel? Unless you go electric, you'll never get anywhere near a carbon footprint of rail.
- temp8964 6y ago
  Do you count in all the efforts of building the rails?
  - barbazoo 6y ago
    You're right, in the case where rail needs to get built and not just upgraded or used where it exists you need to take that into consideration. And I don't know what that means for the carbon footprint but my gut feeling is that it'd still be better than air travel in the long run.
jcranmer 6y ago
> 2. difficult to travel with kids I'm pretty sure my nephew's first ride on the subway was when he was 3. I don't recall how old I was when I first took the subway, but I think wasn't more than twice his age. Transit is no harder than any other mode of transportation with kids. Sure, you might have to be schlepping around some duffel bags of supplies, but you'll have to do that anyways at your destination. > 5. have to check time schedule This is only true if your city has a bad transit system. And, yes, every city in the US (including NYC!) has bad transit. That's one of the main themes of the author--if you actually look at how transit works in other countries, you'll find that the American experience with transit is unusually bad. > 1. do not directly bring you from point A to B This is mostly a result of bad urban planning. When you have a transit system in place, you want to focus development around the accessibility of transit so that all of the desired origin and destination points are actually near enough to transit to you allow you to go directly from point A to B. When cities cross the hurdle and stop making every other block be a parking lot, then the nonavailability of parking means that it's driving that has the problem of not getting you directly from point A to B like transit would.
- temp8964 6y ago
  For 2, I meant with multiple kids. With a baby is indeed more difficult. You apparently did have the experience of carrying the stroller up and down in subways. Especially when elevator is not working, which is not rare in NYC. 5 and 1 may be a planning issue, but the terrible situation in NYC could because the size of population and geography. It certainly can be improved, but the cost of change must have deterred the management.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Imo, baby is easy. The hard is toddler you have to watch constantly else it does something stupid or get lost. Baby can be contained in carrier.
    - temp8964 6y ago
      But baby cries, sometimes need sleep and sometimes need milk. So much easier to do all those in cars.
Johnny555 6y ago
Does America need to have better rails? I highly doubt it. If we can speed up existing rails without building new rails, that would be nice. Building new rails? Why don't we just improve air travel? I think people that think air travel is a replacement for rail haven't experienced good rail and transit based city planning. City center to city center travel can't be matched by air. Walk from your job to the train, then walk to the conference center in the city you're traveling to. Rail may be slower than air, but it picks you up and drops you off closer to where you want to be. Maybe improve personal vehicle is the way to go The problem is not the vehicle so much as the roads. I have a very nice car that I enjoy driving, but I prefer to the take train since I'm often stuck in stop-and-go traffic with the car (and the car will nearly drive itself in that traffic).
- temp8964 6y ago
  The number of buildings in walking distance to a train station is very limited. Your case can't be generalized. Yes. Roads can also be optimized.
  - Johnny555 6y ago
    The number of buildings in walking distance to a train station is very limited. Your case can't be generalized. The number of buildings within close commute distance of an airport is even more limited, airports are big and loud and no one wants one close to the city center. Take, for example, travel from Buckingham Palace to the Louvre, the cities are they are connected by a high speed train, but neither source or destination is within close walking distance. The total trip length by train is 3:30 including taking a train to St Pancras, Eurostar high speed rail to Gare du Nord, then a train to the Louvre. By plane, LHR to CDG is only 1:20. Paddington station to LHR is only around 15 minutes, but it'll take you 20 minutes to get to Paddington. And once you get to the airport, allow 10 - 15 minutes from the Heathrow Express train to the terminal. So you've got 50 minutes of travel time to your get. And you need to allow time for security, and to get to your gate so get there 30 minutes early. Now you're up to 1:20 just to get to your flight. Airports, being so large, are located far from downtown, so it'll take you 45 minutes by train to get from CDG to the Louvre, but add 15 minutes to get off the plane and walk to the train. So that's an hour. So you've got 1:20 + 1:20 + 1:00 = 3:40 by air. Yes. Roads can also be optimized. LA has devoted around 30% of its land area to roads, yet they still have some of the worst traffic congestion in the country, how much can roads be optimized?
theshrike79 6y ago
> 2. difficult to travel with kids Umm, just because American trains suck it doesn't mean all trains do. In Finland all long-distance trains have a separate "kids car" with a playground, toddler/diaper change-compatible toilet and more open seating.[1] I'd never subject other people to a 2-3 year old who hates cramped planes, nor do I want a screaming kid in the backseat of my car. They can burn off their energy in the play area in the train. When they are sufficiently drained, we can walk to the restaurant car where I can get a beer and they can get some lunch. Everyone arrives well-rested and relaxed. [1] https://www.vr.fi/en/facilities-and-services/travelling-with-children https://www.vr.fi/en/facilities-and-services/travelling-with...

astrange 6y ago

You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. On the other hand, you have to find parking everywhere you drive a car, which is very expensive to provision. Plus someone can break into it and steal all the stuff you're carting everywhere.

dagw 6y ago
You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. Depends very much on where you are going. I live in a European city with pretty good transit so if I'm going to or around the city center, then sure there is a bus every few minutes[1]. However If I'm going to visit my in-laws a few suburbs out, that train leaves once an hour if traveling at off peak times (like Sunday afternoon when I normally go). If I'm going to visit my parents (3.5 hour drive away) that train leave twice a day. [1] Although with COVID being what it is I haven't been on public transport for over a year and have to admit that driving everywhere is actually quicker and easier in almost every case at the moment.

barbazoo 6y ago

> Why don't we just improve air travel? Unless you go electric, you'll never get anywhere near a carbon footprint of rail.

temp8964 6y ago
Do you count in all the efforts of building the rails?
- barbazoo 6y ago
  You're right, in the case where rail needs to get built and not just upgraded or used where it exists you need to take that into consideration. And I don't know what that means for the carbon footprint but my gut feeling is that it'd still be better than air travel in the long run.

jcranmer 6y ago

> 2. difficult to travel with kids I'm pretty sure my nephew's first ride on the subway was when he was 3. I don't recall how old I was when I first took the subway, but I think wasn't more than twice his age. Transit is no harder than any other mode of transportation with kids. Sure, you might have to be schlepping around some duffel bags of supplies, but you'll have to do that anyways at your destination. > 5. have to check time schedule This is only true if your city has a bad transit system. And, yes, every city in the US (including NYC!) has bad transit. That's one of the main themes of the author--if you actually look at how transit works in other countries, you'll find that the American experience with transit is unusually bad. > 1. do not directly bring you from point A to B This is mostly a result of bad urban planning. When you have a transit system in place, you want to focus development around the accessibility of transit so that all of the desired origin and destination points are actually near enough to transit to you allow you to go directly from point A to B. When cities cross the hurdle and stop making every other block be a parking lot, then the nonavailability of parking means that it's driving that has the problem of not getting you directly from point A to B like transit would.

temp8964 6y ago
For 2, I meant with multiple kids. With a baby is indeed more difficult. You apparently did have the experience of carrying the stroller up and down in subways. Especially when elevator is not working, which is not rare in NYC. 5 and 1 may be a planning issue, but the terrible situation in NYC could because the size of population and geography. It certainly can be improved, but the cost of change must have deterred the management.
- watwut 6y ago
  Imo, baby is easy. The hard is toddler you have to watch constantly else it does something stupid or get lost. Baby can be contained in carrier.
  - temp8964 6y ago
    But baby cries, sometimes need sleep and sometimes need milk. So much easier to do all those in cars.

Johnny555 6y ago

Does America need to have better rails? I highly doubt it. If we can speed up existing rails without building new rails, that would be nice. Building new rails? Why don't we just improve air travel? I think people that think air travel is a replacement for rail haven't experienced good rail and transit based city planning. City center to city center travel can't be matched by air. Walk from your job to the train, then walk to the conference center in the city you're traveling to. Rail may be slower than air, but it picks you up and drops you off closer to where you want to be. Maybe improve personal vehicle is the way to go The problem is not the vehicle so much as the roads. I have a very nice car that I enjoy driving, but I prefer to the take train since I'm often stuck in stop-and-go traffic with the car (and the car will nearly drive itself in that traffic).

temp8964 6y ago
The number of buildings in walking distance to a train station is very limited. Your case can't be generalized. Yes. Roads can also be optimized.
- Johnny555 6y ago
  The number of buildings in walking distance to a train station is very limited. Your case can't be generalized. The number of buildings within close commute distance of an airport is even more limited, airports are big and loud and no one wants one close to the city center. Take, for example, travel from Buckingham Palace to the Louvre, the cities are they are connected by a high speed train, but neither source or destination is within close walking distance. The total trip length by train is 3:30 including taking a train to St Pancras, Eurostar high speed rail to Gare du Nord, then a train to the Louvre. By plane, LHR to CDG is only 1:20. Paddington station to LHR is only around 15 minutes, but it'll take you 20 minutes to get to Paddington. And once you get to the airport, allow 10 - 15 minutes from the Heathrow Express train to the terminal. So you've got 50 minutes of travel time to your get. And you need to allow time for security, and to get to your gate so get there 30 minutes early. Now you're up to 1:20 just to get to your flight. Airports, being so large, are located far from downtown, so it'll take you 45 minutes by train to get from CDG to the Louvre, but add 15 minutes to get off the plane and walk to the train. So that's an hour. So you've got 1:20 + 1:20 + 1:00 = 3:40 by air. Yes. Roads can also be optimized. LA has devoted around 30% of its land area to roads, yet they still have some of the worst traffic congestion in the country, how much can roads be optimized?

theshrike79 6y ago

> 2. difficult to travel with kids Umm, just because American trains suck it doesn't mean all trains do. In Finland all long-distance trains have a separate "kids car" with a playground, toddler/diaper change-compatible toilet and more open seating.[1] I'd never subject other people to a 2-3 year old who hates cramped planes, nor do I want a screaming kid in the backseat of my car. They can burn off their energy in the play area in the train. When they are sufficiently drained, we can walk to the restaurant car where I can get a beer and they can get some lunch. Everyone arrives well-rested and relaxed. [1] https://www.vr.fi/en/facilities-and-services/travelling-with-children https://www.vr.fi/en/facilities-and-services/travelling-with...