7 ms·

There is no doubt that America needs to get much better at rail and other mass transit and that there is a lot to be learned from the rest of the world. The cha

by tims33 5y ago

There is no doubt that America needs to get much better at rail and other mass transit and that there is a lot to be learned from the rest of the world. The challenge is that America is not Europe in many ways, but particularly in geography. And yet there is a certain condescension that America has to do it like Europe. That is a message that will never be well received delivered in that way.

macintux 5y ago
People must be reading a different piece than I am. Where does the author say we have to do it like Europe does?!
- tims33 5y ago
  "Amtrak can and should fully replace its senior management with people who know how to run a modern intercity railroads, who are not Americans" The entirety of the article is a set of comparisons to European countries with 2 references to Japan thrown in.
  - macintux 5y ago
    Which is still not the same as saying we have to do it their way, but that people who have done it successfully might be able to do it again. I agree that sentence is too strongly worded, but hell it might be entirely correct.
    - kodah 5y ago
      I understood this point, but honestly the author's writing style is fairly combative for a piece that is responding to absolutely no one. Generally when I've said, "We should do x like y, because they do it better" I figured out that people are often off-put by this because it's been used in reductionist ways to avoid having to answer very we-centric problems.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    If the reading comprehension ITT is typical of Americans, TFA may well be correct.
resoluteteeth 5y ago
The a priori assumption that America must be unique in some respect such as geography that means there is nothing to learn from other countries is part of the problem.
- tims33 5y ago
  Both of my first two sentences were dedicated to the fact that America should learn from other countries. There is lots to learn, but our geography is also quite unique relative to Europe and Japan.
  - resonantjacket5 5y ago
    I'm not sure how having different geography means there isn't still lots to learn in the area where those countries are ahead. Like a company can be using a different programming language doesn't completely detract from learning how to use version control. Part of what Alon is saying is that for USA we are ahead in most other stuff and so we don't have this expectation to learn from other countries but we are behind in this area.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Then compare to China and Russia, both of which have better high-speed (in Russia's case, I'd say the same as the US - a single high-traffic corridor, but its faster than its American counterpart), slower intercity, regional, urban public transit. Both are bigger, with serious geographic challenges, and poorer than the US.
temp8964 5y ago
> There is no doubt that America needs to get much better at rail and other mass transit and that there is a lot to be learned from the rest of the world. No doubt? I have doubts. Does America need to have better rails? I highly doubt it. If we can speed up existing rails without building new rails, that would be nice. Building new rails? Why don't we just improve air travel? Does America need to have better mass transit? I am not sure. I know there are lots of people on NH love mass transit, but I am not a fan of it. And many Americans don't like it either, because mass transit has its disadvantages (1. do not directly bring you from point A to B, 2. difficult to travel with kids, 3. difficult to go to stations in bad weather, 4. can't bring lots of stuff with you, 5. have to check time schedule, etc. etc.). Maybe improve personal vehicle is the way to go? Lots of people here are against Uber, but do you want to think about how to improve the taxi system, instead of blaming Uber?
- astrange 5y ago
  You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. On the other hand, you have to find parking everywhere you drive a car, which is very expensive to provision. Plus someone can break into it and steal all the stuff you're carting everywhere.
  - dagw 5y ago
    You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. Depends very much on where you are going. I live in a European city with pretty good transit so if I'm going to or around the city center, then sure there is a bus every few minutes[1]. However If I'm going to visit my in-laws a few suburbs out, that train leaves once an hour if traveling at off peak times (like Sunday afternoon when I normally go). If I'm going to visit my parents (3.5 hour drive away) that train leave twice a day. [1] Although with COVID being what it is I haven't been on public transport for over a year and have to admit that driving everywhere is actually quicker and easier in almost every case at the moment.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  > Why don't we just improve air travel? Unless you go electric, you'll never get anywhere near a carbon footprint of rail.

by tims33 5y ago

macintux 5y ago

People must be reading a different piece than I am. Where does the author say we have to do it like Europe does?!

tims33 5y ago
"Amtrak can and should fully replace its senior management with people who know how to run a modern intercity railroads, who are not Americans" The entirety of the article is a set of comparisons to European countries with 2 references to Japan thrown in.
- macintux 5y ago
  Which is still not the same as saying we have to do it their way, but that people who have done it successfully might be able to do it again. I agree that sentence is too strongly worded, but hell it might be entirely correct.
  - kodah 5y ago
    I understood this point, but honestly the author's writing style is fairly combative for a piece that is responding to absolutely no one. Generally when I've said, "We should do x like y, because they do it better" I figured out that people are often off-put by this because it's been used in reductionist ways to avoid having to answer very we-centric problems.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  If the reading comprehension ITT is typical of Americans, TFA may well be correct.

resoluteteeth 5y ago

The a priori assumption that America must be unique in some respect such as geography that means there is nothing to learn from other countries is part of the problem.

tims33 5y ago
Both of my first two sentences were dedicated to the fact that America should learn from other countries. There is lots to learn, but our geography is also quite unique relative to Europe and Japan.
- resonantjacket5 5y ago
  I'm not sure how having different geography means there isn't still lots to learn in the area where those countries are ahead. Like a company can be using a different programming language doesn't completely detract from learning how to use version control. Part of what Alon is saying is that for USA we are ahead in most other stuff and so we don't have this expectation to learn from other countries but we are behind in this area.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Then compare to China and Russia, both of which have better high-speed (in Russia's case, I'd say the same as the US - a single high-traffic corridor, but its faster than its American counterpart), slower intercity, regional, urban public transit. Both are bigger, with serious geographic challenges, and poorer than the US.

temp8964 5y ago

> There is no doubt that America needs to get much better at rail and other mass transit and that there is a lot to be learned from the rest of the world. No doubt? I have doubts. Does America need to have better rails? I highly doubt it. If we can speed up existing rails without building new rails, that would be nice. Building new rails? Why don't we just improve air travel? Does America need to have better mass transit? I am not sure. I know there are lots of people on NH love mass transit, but I am not a fan of it. And many Americans don't like it either, because mass transit has its disadvantages (1. do not directly bring you from point A to B, 2. difficult to travel with kids, 3. difficult to go to stations in bad weather, 4. can't bring lots of stuff with you, 5. have to check time schedule, etc. etc.). Maybe improve personal vehicle is the way to go? Lots of people here are against Uber, but do you want to think about how to improve the taxi system, instead of blaming Uber?

astrange 5y ago
You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. On the other hand, you have to find parking everywhere you drive a car, which is very expensive to provision. Plus someone can break into it and steal all the stuff you're carting everywhere.
- dagw 5y ago
  You don't have to check the schedule for a good transit system because it comes so often it's always there. Depends very much on where you are going. I live in a European city with pretty good transit so if I'm going to or around the city center, then sure there is a bus every few minutes[1]. However If I'm going to visit my in-laws a few suburbs out, that train leaves once an hour if traveling at off peak times (like Sunday afternoon when I normally go). If I'm going to visit my parents (3.5 hour drive away) that train leave twice a day. [1] Although with COVID being what it is I haven't been on public transport for over a year and have to admit that driving everywhere is actually quicker and easier in almost every case at the moment.
barbazoo 5y ago
> Why don't we just improve air travel? Unless you go electric, you'll never get anywhere near a carbon footprint of rail.