4 ms·

I can assure you that a much larger cohort of employees are vastly more effective. No commute alone is a MASSIVE gain.

by jaegerpicker 5y ago

_vertigo 5y ago
Eh, I'm not so sure. As the parent said, time will tell.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Cookingboy 5y ago
I can assure you all these "assurances" are just based off personal preferences and anecdotal stories. There are pros and cons with office work and WFH, and some people prefer one over the other. A full remote arrangement isn't for everyone, despite how the overwhelming number of introverts on HackerNews paint it as the objectively the best way going forward for all companies.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't frame the community as being on one side of a divisive issue (invariably, the side the commenter disagrees with). It's a trope of lame discussion. You can make your case for the view you think is correct without that. The community is divided on divisive issues. It's as simple as that.
- briandear 5y ago
  You can use anecdotal stories or, you can look at quarterly earnings. That’s how one can objectively measure how productive a company is. If the earnings are there, it’s hard to prove that remote is, a least, a hindrance to productivity.
- ketamine__ 5y ago
  Most employers don't give workers a choice when it comes to open floor plan. And yet everyone sucked it up and did it to pay the bills. My point is this: If you have to be effective working remotely you will be effective working remotely.
  - compiler-guy 5y ago
    It's not really binary though. I can be somewhat more or less effective depending on my work environment. It's also possible that wfh was beneficial in the short term, with projects already mostly planned and the benefits of in-person collaboration continuing via inertia, but will be detrimental long term. Maybe. I don't know. And that is the big kicker to me: too many unknowns to definitively say one way or the other.
    - toolz 5y ago
      I have a hard time imagining a complete uprooting from your normal routine during a global pandemic would result in a short-term productivity gain that would then decrease as workers become more accustomed to remote work and are less stressed due to the lack of a pandemic moving forward. That's not to say you don't make good points, I just can't imagine your points outweighing what I perceive as more heavily influencing factors.
      - orangecat 5y ago
        Anecdotal as everyone else, but what the grandparent describes has been exactly my experience. When we went all-remote last year we were in the later stages of an existing project, and it wasn't much of a problem because everybody had a good understanding of what we had to do. Getting our next project off the ground was much harder due to communication challenges.
    - rovr138 5y ago
      >It's not really binary though. Might be. Depends on the company too.
- orangecat 5y ago
  Heck, I'm an introvert and I recognize that the increased friction in communication has a significant negative impact. I'm also a bit put off by the "it's so great not having a commute" people. Commuting does suck, but they voluntarily signed up for it. Meanwhile those that chose tiny apartments near their offices didn't sign up for spending all day in cramped quarters trying to work from a couch.
  - EvilEy3 5y ago
    > Meanwhile those that chose tiny apartments near their offices didn't sign up for spending all day in cramped quarters trying to work from a couch. They literally did. I don't see any difference between choosing living an hour from work or choosing living in a cramped up flat near work.
    - ric2b 5y ago
      No, the point was that the choice of where to live was made before the pandemic sent people to work from home.
- watwut 5y ago
  > despite how the overwhelming number of introverts on HackerNews paint it as the objectively the best way going forward for all companies. Hacker news is no more pro work from home then people IRL I see. And division among people I know in person is not introvert/extrovert at all. It is more about living arrangement and family. Single people living alone want to go to work. Those who have family and expect their partners to do all childcare, prefer to go to work and socialize with colleagues after work. Those who have kids and want to be present fathers or have partners with equally important work want to work from home.
brianwawok 5y ago
Live in an area with a better commute. Mine is 8 minutes.
- jaegerpicker 5y ago
  I'll live where ever I want to thanks. I have ZERO desire to life close to anything and I can you do a great job at home. If you can't that's on you not me.
flukus 5y ago
> No commute alone is a MASSIVE gain. This is a huge one for me and anyone more productive in the morning, I'm no longer wasting an hour of my most productive time just getting to work. Then you've got the extra 2 hours a day to relax and get various things done that also make me more productive.
js8 5y ago
I agree. I find the claims about WfH being inefficient very amusing. I work for an international American SW company in Czechia. We have a big office there, but for the first ~8 years there (since 2006), I was the only person working with a team of Americans, or only with a teammate, because they "outsourced" work to us. It was more annoying than WfH today, I remember all the really incomprehensible phone calls (no reliable video, only screensharing), making sure I get everything I need done in the morning so I could batch the questions for afternoon due to time zones, etc. And yet, my bosses were happy about my performance (more than they are today). (It's interesting when I think about it now, IMHO constant communication can have downsides, too. There is something about having a half day where it's only you who has to solve a problem, and no one can help, you will learn a lot.) OTOH, I was never a big fan of work from home, but I tried it now and I found it more pleasant with almost no downside. It's very similar to how I used to work in the era of "outsourcing", actually it's much easier. To sum up, outsourcing was efficient but individual WfH isn't? Gimme a break, of course it's propaganda.

I can assure you that a much larger cohort of employees are vastly more effective. No commute alone is a MASSIVE gain.

_vertigo 5y ago

Eh, I'm not so sure. As the parent said, time will tell.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Cookingboy 5y ago

I can assure you all these "assurances" are just based off personal preferences and anecdotal stories. There are pros and cons with office work and WFH, and some people prefer one over the other. A full remote arrangement isn't for everyone, despite how the overwhelming number of introverts on HackerNews paint it as the objectively the best way going forward for all companies.

dang 5y ago
Please don't frame the community as being on one side of a divisive issue (invariably, the side the commenter disagrees with). It's a trope of lame discussion. You can make your case for the view you think is correct without that. The community is divided on divisive issues. It's as simple as that.
briandear 5y ago
You can use anecdotal stories or, you can look at quarterly earnings. That’s how one can objectively measure how productive a company is. If the earnings are there, it’s hard to prove that remote is, a least, a hindrance to productivity.
ketamine__ 5y ago
Most employers don't give workers a choice when it comes to open floor plan. And yet everyone sucked it up and did it to pay the bills. My point is this: If you have to be effective working remotely you will be effective working remotely.
- compiler-guy 5y ago
  It's not really binary though. I can be somewhat more or less effective depending on my work environment. It's also possible that wfh was beneficial in the short term, with projects already mostly planned and the benefits of in-person collaboration continuing via inertia, but will be detrimental long term. Maybe. I don't know. And that is the big kicker to me: too many unknowns to definitively say one way or the other.
  - toolz 5y ago
    I have a hard time imagining a complete uprooting from your normal routine during a global pandemic would result in a short-term productivity gain that would then decrease as workers become more accustomed to remote work and are less stressed due to the lack of a pandemic moving forward. That's not to say you don't make good points, I just can't imagine your points outweighing what I perceive as more heavily influencing factors.
    - orangecat 5y ago
      Anecdotal as everyone else, but what the grandparent describes has been exactly my experience. When we went all-remote last year we were in the later stages of an existing project, and it wasn't much of a problem because everybody had a good understanding of what we had to do. Getting our next project off the ground was much harder due to communication challenges.
  - rovr138 5y ago
    >It's not really binary though. Might be. Depends on the company too.
orangecat 5y ago
Heck, I'm an introvert and I recognize that the increased friction in communication has a significant negative impact. I'm also a bit put off by the "it's so great not having a commute" people. Commuting does suck, but they voluntarily signed up for it. Meanwhile those that chose tiny apartments near their offices didn't sign up for spending all day in cramped quarters trying to work from a couch.
- EvilEy3 5y ago
  > Meanwhile those that chose tiny apartments near their offices didn't sign up for spending all day in cramped quarters trying to work from a couch. They literally did. I don't see any difference between choosing living an hour from work or choosing living in a cramped up flat near work.
  - ric2b 5y ago
    No, the point was that the choice of where to live was made before the pandemic sent people to work from home.
watwut 5y ago
> despite how the overwhelming number of introverts on HackerNews paint it as the objectively the best way going forward for all companies. Hacker news is no more pro work from home then people IRL I see. And division among people I know in person is not introvert/extrovert at all. It is more about living arrangement and family. Single people living alone want to go to work. Those who have family and expect their partners to do all childcare, prefer to go to work and socialize with colleagues after work. Those who have kids and want to be present fathers or have partners with equally important work want to work from home.

brianwawok 5y ago

Live in an area with a better commute. Mine is 8 minutes.

jaegerpicker 5y ago
I'll live where ever I want to thanks. I have ZERO desire to life close to anything and I can you do a great job at home. If you can't that's on you not me.

flukus 5y ago

> No commute alone is a MASSIVE gain. This is a huge one for me and anyone more productive in the morning, I'm no longer wasting an hour of my most productive time just getting to work. Then you've got the extra 2 hours a day to relax and get various things done that also make me more productive.

js8 5y ago

I agree. I find the claims about WfH being inefficient very amusing. I work for an international American SW company in Czechia. We have a big office there, but for the first ~8 years there (since 2006), I was the only person working with a team of Americans, or only with a teammate, because they "outsourced" work to us. It was more annoying than WfH today, I remember all the really incomprehensible phone calls (no reliable video, only screensharing), making sure I get everything I need done in the morning so I could batch the questions for afternoon due to time zones, etc. And yet, my bosses were happy about my performance (more than they are today). (It's interesting when I think about it now, IMHO constant communication can have downsides, too. There is something about having a half day where it's only you who has to solve a problem, and no one can help, you will learn a lot.) OTOH, I was never a big fan of work from home, but I tried it now and I found it more pleasant with almost no downside. It's very similar to how I used to work in the era of "outsourcing", actually it's much easier. To sum up, outsourcing was efficient but individual WfH isn't? Gimme a break, of course it's propaganda.