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My personal theory is that Apple got better after Ive’s departure. Ive got worse after Steve Jobs died because he no longer had someone pushing back on his craz

by cletus 6y ago

My personal theory is that Apple got better after Ive’s departure. Ive got worse after Steve Jobs died because he no longer had someone pushing back on his crazy ideas, making them practical. The 12” MacBook was the poster child for the search for ultimate thinness. As was the disastrous butterfly keyboard (it was suggested this only shaved off 0.5mm). Look at the iPad Pro refresh just announced. It’s actually slightly thicker because that’s needed for a better display. This would never have happened with Ive at the helm of design.

giobox 6y ago
> It’s actually slightly thicker because that’s needed for a better display. This would never have happened with Ive at the helm of design. This is verifiable nonsense, given the iPhone increased in thickness between generations several times with Ive at the helm.
vineyardmike 6y ago
I think the difference is actually because Tim Cook doesn't care about design. I can't find the link, but I heard when they launched the new Mac Pro, Ives tried to show Tim Cook what it looked like, but Tim responded with "I get it... its a computer", and didn't see the design until the public launch event.
lttlrck 6y ago
IIRC force touch increased the thickness of the iPhone 6s over the iPhone 6
- cletus 6y ago
  Oh Force Touch, this was one of the biggest UX fails of the modern Apple era. It all goes back to one of Apple's Macintosh era fails: the one button mouse. This was one thing that can be reasonably argued (as I do) that Jobs was wrong about. Right-clicking became so ubiquitous and even consistent on Windows. You needed the same behaviour on Macs but had no second mouse button so got that by using modifier keys. Some apps it was Option, others control and so on. The problem was that those modified clicks had no discoverability and less consistency than right-clicking. Windows users on the other hand learned that nothing bad could happen with a right click. Force Touch as a similar kind of UX fail with no discoverability. There was (and is) no consistency with what a Force Touch means or should mean or even if it's an option at all. But yes, Force Touch did make the iPhone thicker and heavier.
woah 6y ago
I had a 12" Macbook, wrote code on it, it's a great computer. I had some issues with dust in the keyboard but they replaced it for free and it was fine after that. Biggest downside is that it got very hot during video calls, which wasn't as big of an issue in 2016 as it is now. That being said, during the time I had it, I spent half of my workday on calls and it wasn't a big deal. The thinness and smallness of the computer was genuinely a very nice thing about it. You could hold it open in one hand easily, fit into any bag, didn't add any weight. Computers don't have all that much differentiating them anyway, so these things are actually a very good goal to shoot for. I'm guessing that they will probably end up bringing the form factor back with the M1 at some point.
- cletus 6y ago
  > I had some issues with dust in the keyboard but they replaced it for free So dust kills a keyboard that is an expensive replacement and was such a fail Apple had to replace who knows how many keyboards for free. Epic fail. That's kind of my point. > Biggest downside is that it got very hot during video calls Exactly. It was too underpowered. Compare that to the Macbook Air (2010 onwards, not the earlier 2008 model). This was such an awesome machine. Relatively cheap and a good compromise of power and portability. It was actually amazing how good this machine was. For years no Windows hardware could compete with that price and set of features. But it languished for years when all it needed was more memory and a retina display and instead we got the one-port 12" Macbook abomination. All for the holy grail of thinness. Design is the art of compromise. The 12" Macbook shows you exactly what happens when you don't compromise. > I'm guessing that they will probably end up bringing the form factor back with the M1 at some point. While waiting for a Macbook Air refresh my heart sank as soon as they announced the 12" Macbook. Why? Because I knew there was no room for the (then) 11" and 13" Airs with a 12" SKU. And I was right. That mistake was corrected so I don't see the 12" model coming back anytime soon with the 13" Air here and on M1. if anything, I think that niche has been filled with the iPad (poorly). I mean there's lots of things I like my iPad for but it's no laptop replacement.
  - woah 6y ago
    All I'm saying is I liked it. Got a faster computer when I started compiling a lot of Rust.
mastercheif 6y ago
Something to keep in mind regarding the 12" MacBook: In 2012 Intel was telling partners that 10nm would be ready by 2015. In 2014 they pushed this back to 2016. It took until mid-2016 for Intel to admit that it wouldn't be ready by the end of the year. Ice Lake wouldn't end up shipping until late 2019. It's crazy to think about, Intel 10nm was supposed to be available for the entire butterfly/touchbar era.

by cletus 6y ago

giobox 6y ago

> It’s actually slightly thicker because that’s needed for a better display. This would never have happened with Ive at the helm of design. This is verifiable nonsense, given the iPhone increased in thickness between generations several times with Ive at the helm.

vineyardmike 6y ago

I think the difference is actually because Tim Cook doesn't care about design. I can't find the link, but I heard when they launched the new Mac Pro, Ives tried to show Tim Cook what it looked like, but Tim responded with "I get it... its a computer", and didn't see the design until the public launch event.

lttlrck 6y ago

IIRC force touch increased the thickness of the iPhone 6s over the iPhone 6

cletus 6y ago
Oh Force Touch, this was one of the biggest UX fails of the modern Apple era. It all goes back to one of Apple's Macintosh era fails: the one button mouse. This was one thing that can be reasonably argued (as I do) that Jobs was wrong about. Right-clicking became so ubiquitous and even consistent on Windows. You needed the same behaviour on Macs but had no second mouse button so got that by using modifier keys. Some apps it was Option, others control and so on. The problem was that those modified clicks had no discoverability and less consistency than right-clicking. Windows users on the other hand learned that nothing bad could happen with a right click. Force Touch as a similar kind of UX fail with no discoverability. There was (and is) no consistency with what a Force Touch means or should mean or even if it's an option at all. But yes, Force Touch did make the iPhone thicker and heavier.

woah 6y ago

I had a 12" Macbook, wrote code on it, it's a great computer. I had some issues with dust in the keyboard but they replaced it for free and it was fine after that. Biggest downside is that it got very hot during video calls, which wasn't as big of an issue in 2016 as it is now. That being said, during the time I had it, I spent half of my workday on calls and it wasn't a big deal. The thinness and smallness of the computer was genuinely a very nice thing about it. You could hold it open in one hand easily, fit into any bag, didn't add any weight. Computers don't have all that much differentiating them anyway, so these things are actually a very good goal to shoot for. I'm guessing that they will probably end up bringing the form factor back with the M1 at some point.

cletus 6y ago
> I had some issues with dust in the keyboard but they replaced it for free So dust kills a keyboard that is an expensive replacement and was such a fail Apple had to replace who knows how many keyboards for free. Epic fail. That's kind of my point. > Biggest downside is that it got very hot during video calls Exactly. It was too underpowered. Compare that to the Macbook Air (2010 onwards, not the earlier 2008 model). This was such an awesome machine. Relatively cheap and a good compromise of power and portability. It was actually amazing how good this machine was. For years no Windows hardware could compete with that price and set of features. But it languished for years when all it needed was more memory and a retina display and instead we got the one-port 12" Macbook abomination. All for the holy grail of thinness. Design is the art of compromise. The 12" Macbook shows you exactly what happens when you don't compromise. > I'm guessing that they will probably end up bringing the form factor back with the M1 at some point. While waiting for a Macbook Air refresh my heart sank as soon as they announced the 12" Macbook. Why? Because I knew there was no room for the (then) 11" and 13" Airs with a 12" SKU. And I was right. That mistake was corrected so I don't see the 12" model coming back anytime soon with the 13" Air here and on M1. if anything, I think that niche has been filled with the iPad (poorly). I mean there's lots of things I like my iPad for but it's no laptop replacement.
- woah 6y ago
  All I'm saying is I liked it. Got a faster computer when I started compiling a lot of Rust.

mastercheif 6y ago

Something to keep in mind regarding the 12" MacBook: In 2012 Intel was telling partners that 10nm would be ready by 2015. In 2014 they pushed this back to 2016. It took until mid-2016 for Intel to admit that it wouldn't be ready by the end of the year. Ice Lake wouldn't end up shipping until late 2019. It's crazy to think about, Intel 10nm was supposed to be available for the entire butterfly/touchbar era.