4 ms·

Covid had a lot more to do with it. Mac is at an all time high yes but the last iteration of Intel MBPs was only slightly different from what we had while Ive w

by jrsj 5y ago

Covid had a lot more to do with it. Mac is at an all time high yes but the last iteration of Intel MBPs was only slightly different from what we had while Ive was still around, and Mac is still a relative small % of overall revenue which has increased a lot. I don’t really get the Jony Ive hate. The only particularly bad thing I can think of him being involved in was the butterfly keyboard, and the fact that the Apple Watch is the only real success among smart watches more than makes up for that.

hardwaregeek 5y ago
Yeah it's pretty baffling. Is there any designer even close to Ive? Is there any company making computers or phones that are even close in terms of aesthetic? I know that wishy-washy ideals like beauty, elegance and feel aren't that appealing to a lot of HN users but Ive's emphasis on them is a significant part of Apple's success
- Spooky23 5y ago
  I don’t think critique of Ive is bashing. Design isn’t engineering, sometimes you hit an artistic wall or do it too long. IMO the guy got bored and focused on building the museum-like HQ building and took eyes off the ball of actual products, while maintaining total control. Even for an elite, top of his field individual, you need to focus to win. In terms of laptops, HP built some very nice high end business laptops that were more like evolutions of the 2014 MacBook Pro than the garbage Apple pumped out and wasted many millions of dollars on for warranty claims.
  - sbuk 5y ago
    Design is “engineering”. Engineers design, by definition[0]. Design, contrary to popular belief is about solving problems. Industrial design in particular focuses on how things work, not just the aesthetics of an object. [0] from the OED: a) To make drawings for the construction or creation of (something, as a building, object, garment, etc.) according to certain aesthetic criteria; (b) to make plans for the production of (a device, product, etc.) according to structural or functional criteria (sometimes without the implication of aesthetic requirements); (c) (in extended use) to conceive, devise, plan (something immaterial, as a scheme, system, programme, etc.).
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      Like anything, you balance the the aesthetic with the function. When function follows form to the point where you ship say a laptop with an unserviceable keyboard that is rendered inoperable by a speck of dust, or make a smartphone surface friction similar to a stick of butter, you got a problem.
soperj 5y ago
They still don't have a day's worth of battery do they? Garmin watch actually lasts a week.
- Swenrekcah 5y ago
  A little tangential information on Garmin battery life for anyone in the market. I see that the upper end of Apple Watch is 800 dollars. That’s around what I paid for my Garmin fenix 6 pro solar which I’m very happy with. I get about 15 days of battery and dropping to around 10 days if I record around 1.5 hours of activities per day. Never owned an Apple Watch so can’t compare but I really like my Garmin. It is a little large though so not everyone’s cup of tea. Smaller versions probably last a bit shorter.
  - mvanaltvorst 5y ago
    The top-of-the-line Apple Watch is $529. You can go higher than that, but that is purely for aesthetics (upgrade to titanium shell, stainless steel clasp, etc.).
- soperj 5y ago
  They do have over a day's worth of battery then? Or you just don't like that being pointed out?
  - willseth 5y ago
    I think what people don't like is borderline troll posting.
    - soperj 5y ago
      how is it Troll posting? Apples own specs say 18 hours. OP says there's no better watch.
      - willseth 5y ago
        That's not what he said. Learn to read.
flenserboy 5y ago
With Ive it's not the specifics, it's the trend — always thinner, always shaving away functionality, always looking to subtract something without appearing to have consulted users. Compare this to the work of the designer Ive has taken many cues from — Rams went for simplicity, but always with an eye to functionality and a user-orientation. It's the latter that's missing from Ive's designs.
- raydev 5y ago
  Did you miss the iMac announcement last week?
  - philistine 5y ago
    It's not the specifics, it's the trend. The iMacs got thinner, sure, but the aggregate shows it is no longer their priority. The iPad Pro got thicker in the same event that unveiled the thinner iMacs. The iPhones have gotten thicker in recent years. My 2020 Macbook Air is still 2.8 pounds when ultralight PCs weigh only 2 pounds.
    - jrsj 5y ago
      Isn’t the simpler answer here that things just got about as thin as they reasonably could without there being anything to gain from it?
    - raydev 5y ago
      iPhones got thicker before Ive left. MacBook Airs got their first big refresh while Ive was still there and they were thicker. They just reached a useful minimum, I don't think it has anything to do with Ive.

by jrsj 5y ago

hardwaregeek 5y ago

Yeah it's pretty baffling. Is there any designer even close to Ive? Is there any company making computers or phones that are even close in terms of aesthetic? I know that wishy-washy ideals like beauty, elegance and feel aren't that appealing to a lot of HN users but Ive's emphasis on them is a significant part of Apple's success

Spooky23 5y ago
I don’t think critique of Ive is bashing. Design isn’t engineering, sometimes you hit an artistic wall or do it too long. IMO the guy got bored and focused on building the museum-like HQ building and took eyes off the ball of actual products, while maintaining total control. Even for an elite, top of his field individual, you need to focus to win. In terms of laptops, HP built some very nice high end business laptops that were more like evolutions of the 2014 MacBook Pro than the garbage Apple pumped out and wasted many millions of dollars on for warranty claims.
- sbuk 5y ago
  Design is “engineering”. Engineers design, by definition[0]. Design, contrary to popular belief is about solving problems. Industrial design in particular focuses on how things work, not just the aesthetics of an object. [0] from the OED: a) To make drawings for the construction or creation of (something, as a building, object, garment, etc.) according to certain aesthetic criteria; (b) to make plans for the production of (a device, product, etc.) according to structural or functional criteria (sometimes without the implication of aesthetic requirements); (c) (in extended use) to conceive, devise, plan (something immaterial, as a scheme, system, programme, etc.).
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Like anything, you balance the the aesthetic with the function. When function follows form to the point where you ship say a laptop with an unserviceable keyboard that is rendered inoperable by a speck of dust, or make a smartphone surface friction similar to a stick of butter, you got a problem.

soperj 5y ago

They still don't have a day's worth of battery do they? Garmin watch actually lasts a week.

Swenrekcah 5y ago
A little tangential information on Garmin battery life for anyone in the market. I see that the upper end of Apple Watch is 800 dollars. That’s around what I paid for my Garmin fenix 6 pro solar which I’m very happy with. I get about 15 days of battery and dropping to around 10 days if I record around 1.5 hours of activities per day. Never owned an Apple Watch so can’t compare but I really like my Garmin. It is a little large though so not everyone’s cup of tea. Smaller versions probably last a bit shorter.
- mvanaltvorst 5y ago
  The top-of-the-line Apple Watch is $529. You can go higher than that, but that is purely for aesthetics (upgrade to titanium shell, stainless steel clasp, etc.).
soperj 5y ago
They do have over a day's worth of battery then? Or you just don't like that being pointed out?
- willseth 5y ago
  I think what people don't like is borderline troll posting.
  - soperj 5y ago
    how is it Troll posting? Apples own specs say 18 hours. OP says there's no better watch.
    - willseth 5y ago
      That's not what he said. Learn to read.

flenserboy 5y ago

With Ive it's not the specifics, it's the trend — always thinner, always shaving away functionality, always looking to subtract something without appearing to have consulted users. Compare this to the work of the designer Ive has taken many cues from — Rams went for simplicity, but always with an eye to functionality and a user-orientation. It's the latter that's missing from Ive's designs.

raydev 5y ago
Did you miss the iMac announcement last week?
- philistine 5y ago
  It's not the specifics, it's the trend. The iMacs got thinner, sure, but the aggregate shows it is no longer their priority. The iPad Pro got thicker in the same event that unveiled the thinner iMacs. The iPhones have gotten thicker in recent years. My 2020 Macbook Air is still 2.8 pounds when ultralight PCs weigh only 2 pounds.
  - jrsj 5y ago
    Isn’t the simpler answer here that things just got about as thin as they reasonably could without there being anything to gain from it?
  - raydev 5y ago
    iPhones got thicker before Ive left. MacBook Airs got their first big refresh while Ive was still there and they were thicker. They just reached a useful minimum, I don't think it has anything to do with Ive.