4 ms·

- I’ll take your word for it, but building above ground seems easier. - NYC is old. We still have steam pipes in active use, and it predates the subway. Also

- I’ll take your word for it, but building above ground seems easier. - NYC is old. We still have steam pipes in active use, and it predates the subway. Also, asbestos. Nor is every city at the same scale. - How do you quantify the amount of tax money that comes in, because the subway enables business? Home taxes are very low in NYC, because of the amount of money generated from business. Rent is high near any station, unless it’s a completely run down neighborhood. It also enables immigrants and students in a way that car-heavy cities can’t match. I know because I was this immigrant and student. We don’t have the problem SF does, as less desirabke neighborhoods are affordable by teachers and nurses. - You know what vents attract? Trash. If not cleaned out it becomes a fire hazard. - Abuse: Absolutely. DC and Boston trains are pristine by comparison, and I’ve ridden trains and railways in Japan. New York is by far the worst, for many reasons. It was even worse in the 70s and 80s, and the mindset never wentvaway.

timerol 6y ago
- Building above ground is easier. But if you're building below ground, bedrock is easier than e.g. alluvial soil or sandy soil. https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/11/23/more-on-station-costs/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/11/23/more-on-statio... - NYC is a brand new city compared to pretty much everywhere but the American West. We're talking about comparisons to Rome here, not comparisons to LA. And Rome is about 3x cheaper to build in than LA, which is about 3x cheaper than NYC. https://transitcosts.com/what-does-the-data-say/ https://transitcosts.com/what-does-the-data-say/
novok 6y ago
When people compare costs of building, they tend to compare to other large old cities like london, madrid, etc which still beat out NYC by a mile.
bluGill 6y ago
NYC is NOT old, the compare cites have been around for thousands of years. Every problem you list exists in every other city in the world. The details are different, but the problem is there.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  It’s one of the oldest cities with modern amenities. When Rome builds its line into the heart of the city, they dig down very deep; where it’s unlikely that any ancient artifacts will be found. Meanwhile NYC has 7.4k miles of sewage lines and a lot of unknowns: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-knows-what-lies-beneath-new-york-city https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-kn... This isn’t meant to be a dick measuring contest, just that it’s a city that wasn’t really planned and so progress is painfully slow. https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/projects/open-sewer-atlas-nyc/ https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/projects/open-sewer-atlas-... Yes, there’s a lot of graft, turf battles, and so on but then has its own unique set of infrastructure challenges. Then you have building collapses due to age or shoddy workmanship; not related to boring, but clearly a concern as they extend the line: https://ny.curbed.com/2015/3/26/9976560/explosion-leads-to-building-collapse-on-second-avenue https://ny.curbed.com/2015/3/26/9976560/explosion-leads-to-b... NYC is dense and in Manhattan especially there’s no real business district vs residential. It’s like code that is legacy and heavily used, with very powerful stakeholders. Retrofitting takes a lot of work and red tape.
  - freeflight 6y ago
    > It’s one of the oldest cities with modern amenities. That feels kinda arbitrary, what's considered a modern amenity, good Internet access? Public transport? Having no clue what's below a city is really not that unique to NYC. If Rome can dig past it, why can't NYC? > This isn’t meant to be a dick measuring contest, just that it’s a city that wasn’t really planned and so progress is painfully slow. Which is, again, not unique to NYC. Urban planing as the proper academic field, we know it today, only emerged in the early 1900s. That's not to deny that every place has its own unique challenges and issues, but that doesn't mean they are inherently unsolvable.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    It is one of the youngest cities with subways.

timerol 6y ago

- Building above ground is easier. But if you're building below ground, bedrock is easier than e.g. alluvial soil or sandy soil. https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/11/23/more-on-station-costs/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/11/23/more-on-statio... - NYC is a brand new city compared to pretty much everywhere but the American West. We're talking about comparisons to Rome here, not comparisons to LA. And Rome is about 3x cheaper to build in than LA, which is about 3x cheaper than NYC. https://transitcosts.com/what-does-the-data-say/ https://transitcosts.com/what-does-the-data-say/

novok 6y ago

When people compare costs of building, they tend to compare to other large old cities like london, madrid, etc which still beat out NYC by a mile.

bluGill 6y ago

NYC is NOT old, the compare cites have been around for thousands of years. Every problem you list exists in every other city in the world. The details are different, but the problem is there.

nobodyandproud 6y ago
It’s one of the oldest cities with modern amenities. When Rome builds its line into the heart of the city, they dig down very deep; where it’s unlikely that any ancient artifacts will be found. Meanwhile NYC has 7.4k miles of sewage lines and a lot of unknowns: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-knows-what-lies-beneath-new-york-city https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-kn... This isn’t meant to be a dick measuring contest, just that it’s a city that wasn’t really planned and so progress is painfully slow. https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/projects/open-sewer-atlas-nyc/ https://opendata.cityofnewyork.us/projects/open-sewer-atlas-... Yes, there’s a lot of graft, turf battles, and so on but then has its own unique set of infrastructure challenges. Then you have building collapses due to age or shoddy workmanship; not related to boring, but clearly a concern as they extend the line: https://ny.curbed.com/2015/3/26/9976560/explosion-leads-to-building-collapse-on-second-avenue https://ny.curbed.com/2015/3/26/9976560/explosion-leads-to-b... NYC is dense and in Manhattan especially there’s no real business district vs residential. It’s like code that is legacy and heavily used, with very powerful stakeholders. Retrofitting takes a lot of work and red tape.
- freeflight 6y ago
  > It’s one of the oldest cities with modern amenities. That feels kinda arbitrary, what's considered a modern amenity, good Internet access? Public transport? Having no clue what's below a city is really not that unique to NYC. If Rome can dig past it, why can't NYC? > This isn’t meant to be a dick measuring contest, just that it’s a city that wasn’t really planned and so progress is painfully slow. Which is, again, not unique to NYC. Urban planing as the proper academic field, we know it today, only emerged in the early 1900s. That's not to deny that every place has its own unique challenges and issues, but that doesn't mean they are inherently unsolvable.
- bluGill 6y ago
  It is one of the youngest cities with subways.