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ISPs are government-granted monopolies. It's so disappointing how many people here don't seem to understand that. Look up regulatory capture and then down vote

ISPs are government-granted monopolies. It's so disappointing how many people here don't seem to understand that. Look up regulatory capture and then down vote me...

TameAntelope 5y ago
Yes, but the granting of monopoly status already happened, that part is over. You can't unring that bell, is my point.
- billytetrud 5y ago
  You absolutely can "unring that bell". You outlaw government granted monopolies
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    Sure, and you could murder all of the executives of ISPs to send a message to other ISPs about anti-competitive behavior. Anything is obviously possible, but no, you can't actually "unring" this bell.
fouric 5y ago
The ISPs got into a monopoly position due to government intervention, yes. That was a mistake. Unfortunately, now that we're in this position, it's too late, we're stuck, and we need the government to get us back out - "activation energy", so to speak, to get us over the energy barrier from our current high-energy position (ISP monopolies) to a low-energy position (competitive market). Ideally, at that point, the government would then step back and merely enact rules to keep the market fair and competitive. Whether that actually happens is another matter. My prediction is that the past trend of the government never letting go of power that it has acquired will continue.
- billytetrud 5y ago
  I'm not sure it is too late. I believe we should strive to find a path to the best state of being, and maybe (probably) we have to do dinner less than ideal things on the way, but we should still try to do the most effective things at some point. So in short, in the long term Theres no need to settle for something less than ideal
croon 5y ago
You need to tear up roads to lay cable, meaning you likely want to limit it down to preferably one per neighborhood, as all other infrastructure is. Not doing that would give you this: https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/cables-above-street-kathmandu-picture-id529993807 https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/cables-above-street-kat... So sure, ISPs per one phrasing is "government-granted monopolies", but the only problem was giving it to one private actor, not that government was involved. It's not that you're technically wrong, but that it's an incomplete and unfair portrayal.
- billytetrud 5y ago
  Wouldn't it be better to set a cost to tearing up the road rather than limit it to one road tearer upper?
  - croon 5y ago
    No, it would mean any entrant into the ISP market has a cost moat for each neighborhood that inevitably has to be paid by the end user, for no gain other than ISPs owning their own connection, which has no user benefit, and thus, only benefits ISPs in a consumer-hostile way. Instead of just treating infrastructure like infrastructure.

ISPs are government-granted monopolies. It's so disappointing how many people here don't seem to understand that. Look up regulatory capture and then down vote me...

TameAntelope 5y ago

Yes, but the granting of monopoly status already happened, that part is over. You can't unring that bell, is my point.

billytetrud 5y ago
You absolutely can "unring that bell". You outlaw government granted monopolies
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  Sure, and you could murder all of the executives of ISPs to send a message to other ISPs about anti-competitive behavior. Anything is obviously possible, but no, you can't actually "unring" this bell.

fouric 5y ago

The ISPs got into a monopoly position due to government intervention, yes. That was a mistake. Unfortunately, now that we're in this position, it's too late, we're stuck, and we need the government to get us back out - "activation energy", so to speak, to get us over the energy barrier from our current high-energy position (ISP monopolies) to a low-energy position (competitive market). Ideally, at that point, the government would then step back and merely enact rules to keep the market fair and competitive. Whether that actually happens is another matter. My prediction is that the past trend of the government never letting go of power that it has acquired will continue.

billytetrud 5y ago
I'm not sure it is too late. I believe we should strive to find a path to the best state of being, and maybe (probably) we have to do dinner less than ideal things on the way, but we should still try to do the most effective things at some point. So in short, in the long term Theres no need to settle for something less than ideal

croon 5y ago

You need to tear up roads to lay cable, meaning you likely want to limit it down to preferably one per neighborhood, as all other infrastructure is. Not doing that would give you this: https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/cables-above-street-kathmandu-picture-id529993807 https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/cables-above-street-kat... So sure, ISPs per one phrasing is "government-granted monopolies", but the only problem was giving it to one private actor, not that government was involved. It's not that you're technically wrong, but that it's an incomplete and unfair portrayal.

billytetrud 5y ago
Wouldn't it be better to set a cost to tearing up the road rather than limit it to one road tearer upper?
- croon 5y ago
  No, it would mean any entrant into the ISP market has a cost moat for each neighborhood that inevitably has to be paid by the end user, for no gain other than ISPs owning their own connection, which has no user benefit, and thus, only benefits ISPs in a consumer-hostile way. Instead of just treating infrastructure like infrastructure.