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This exact thing is occurring with existing private providers read the other comments about poor support in people's cities. So yes it will probably happen with

This exact thing is occurring with existing private providers read the other comments about poor support in people's cities. So yes it will probably happen with municipal too, but at least the citizens can do something about it.

billytetrud 5y ago
The best solution is for states to ban local municipalities from enacting monopolies of any kind. Municipal ISPs are fine as long as private ISPs are allowed to compete.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >The best solution is for states to ban local municipalities from enacting monopolies of any kind. Municipal ISPs are fine as long as private ISPs are allowed to compete. An even better solution is for municipalities to own the last mile, then sell access to that last mile to private ISPs. This lowers barriers to entry, enables additional competition on price, bandwidth, service, etc. and provides a revenue stream to maintain, manage and upgrade the last mile infrastructure.
  - billytetrud 5y ago
    Perhaps. I think separating the last mile and the service provider is an important thing, but I think it might be best for both to be private but legally separated. Then innovation can happen in both arenas without anti competitive shinganigans happening
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >but I think it might be best for both to be private but legally separated. My apologies for the delay in responding. I haven't been on HN for a while. To what sorts of "anti competitive shenanigans" are you referring? I'm not being snarky, I just don't see how local control can lead to widespread anti-competitive behavior. Requiring local ownership/management of the last mile, with various service providers competing to provide services on that infrastructure seems like it would keep the decision-making processes for each local network from being centralized and would pretty much avoid widespread anti-competitive practices. In comparison, the breakup of AT&T pretty closely followed your suggestion. How has that worked out? The original seven Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOCs) have merged down to three[0]. What's more, both Verizon and AT&T (Nee SBC Communications) have acquired content producers, as well as being ISPs. Requiring local management of the last mile makes much more sense than the what you describe, which (as I mentioned)mirrors the landscape after the 1984 AT&T consent decree[1], that has resulted in increased centralization, poor service and anti-competitive tactics by the players. Please understand that I'm not attacking you. Rather, I don't understand what specific issues you have with local control (whether that be local governments or quasi-public corporations[2][3][4]) of last-mile networks. I'd appreciate it if you would expand upon your statement, as I'm not at all clear what specific concerns you have. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Bell_Operating_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Bell_Operating_Compan... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Au... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_of_New_York_and... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTA_Bridges_and_Tunnels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTA_Bridges_and_Tunnels

billytetrud 5y ago

The best solution is for states to ban local municipalities from enacting monopolies of any kind. Municipal ISPs are fine as long as private ISPs are allowed to compete.

nobody9999 5y ago
>The best solution is for states to ban local municipalities from enacting monopolies of any kind. Municipal ISPs are fine as long as private ISPs are allowed to compete. An even better solution is for municipalities to own the last mile, then sell access to that last mile to private ISPs. This lowers barriers to entry, enables additional competition on price, bandwidth, service, etc. and provides a revenue stream to maintain, manage and upgrade the last mile infrastructure.
- billytetrud 5y ago
  Perhaps. I think separating the last mile and the service provider is an important thing, but I think it might be best for both to be private but legally separated. Then innovation can happen in both arenas without anti competitive shinganigans happening
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >but I think it might be best for both to be private but legally separated. My apologies for the delay in responding. I haven't been on HN for a while. To what sorts of "anti competitive shenanigans" are you referring? I'm not being snarky, I just don't see how local control can lead to widespread anti-competitive behavior. Requiring local ownership/management of the last mile, with various service providers competing to provide services on that infrastructure seems like it would keep the decision-making processes for each local network from being centralized and would pretty much avoid widespread anti-competitive practices. In comparison, the breakup of AT&T pretty closely followed your suggestion. How has that worked out? The original seven Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOCs) have merged down to three[0]. What's more, both Verizon and AT&T (Nee SBC Communications) have acquired content producers, as well as being ISPs. Requiring local management of the last mile makes much more sense than the what you describe, which (as I mentioned)mirrors the landscape after the 1984 AT&T consent decree[1], that has resulted in increased centralization, poor service and anti-competitive tactics by the players. Please understand that I'm not attacking you. Rather, I don't understand what specific issues you have with local control (whether that be local governments or quasi-public corporations[2][3][4]) of last-mile networks. I'd appreciate it if you would expand upon your statement, as I'm not at all clear what specific concerns you have. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Bell_Operating_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Bell_Operating_Compan... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Au... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_of_New_York_and... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTA_Bridges_and_Tunnels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTA_Bridges_and_Tunnels