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>I wouldn't want federal or even state run internet How is Comcast or any other large ISP meaningfully different from this? At least you get a vote at the fede

>I wouldn't want federal or even state run internet How is Comcast or any other large ISP meaningfully different from this? At least you get a vote at the federal level, Comcast has zero reason to listen to you.

prophesi 5y ago
I think that's the point. City > State > Federal > Telcom Monopolies in terms of your voice being heard.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I agree that City > State > Comcast. I think Comcast > Federal, though, in terms of service level and individual voice. (With Comcast, my voice is 20dB under the noise floor. With the feds, it’s 10dB lower than that.) Plus, if you get something wrong federally, it’s enormously difficult, expensive, time-consuming, and unlikely to get fixed. If one or a few states get something wrong, you have as easier time showing comparables and proving that a better way is possible.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Speaking of getting things wrong... if Comcast runs some half baked DB query to flag problem customers and it flags a false positive on you you're just gonna get your service turned off. When the states and feds make those mistakes there's a body count or at the very least lives ruined. Comcast, or other BigCo will generally do the right thing to make you go away, after all, every dollar spent on fighting people is a dollar that could be profit. When government does wrong and gets called on it digs in its heels much, much harder.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Telecom can vary in it's place. I would put a local company around the city level because they are often invested in their communities. Really, I would say that goes for companies or government - the bigger they get, the more removed they are from what is going on in the customer/voter lives.
giantg2 5y ago
They aren't that much different in service quality and I don't like them either. You actually can get a vote at Concast if you buy stock, which can be more than what a single vote is worth at the federal level. The real difference is in how you can pressure them. Your single vote in the government covers a multitude of topics, in what is essentially a two choice system. You may need to vote contrary to your beliefs on one topic to protect your rights on another topic. In dealing with a single topic related to a company, you can concentrate your efforts through your voting stock, boycotts, etc. So, when a politician hears a minority complain about an issue, they have zero incentive to listen to you because they lose nothing due to the discrete nature of measuring sucess (minority votes no longer matter once you secure the majority to win). At least companies care about losing revenue because it's measured continuously. Look at how they fight to attract and retain customers through deals, competing with other companies, and even negative stuff like fighting municipal internet. The better choices are local companies and municipalities. This is because a person's voice is worth more and the concerns amongst the customers/voters tend to be more homogeneous than at higher levels.
FredPret 5y ago
Any huge, old, unaccountable organization is going to suck, government or corporation. The key is being accountable to the end user. Local governments with rational and active voters and corporations with energetic competitors usually do very well.
atotic 5y ago
Anecdote: I live in Palo Alto, and my entire neighborhood is on Comcast. In January, service got to be really bad, 1Mbs upload during the day. Comcast came out, said our local node was saturated at 92%, and that they have an upgrade planned a year from now, and that we can suck it till then. This is Palo Alto, the land of very vocal neighbors. They started a campaign where we all sent a complaint to the FCC. Within a week, we were personally contacted by a Comcast rep, techs came out, and suddenly I had 30Mbs up. And Comcast reps have been calling, emailing every week to make sure we are ok. Not sure what happened, the node did not get upgraded, but they fixed something. And another data point on how sad the situation is in the US: my brother lives in Belgrade, Serbia, in one of those concrete high-rises from the 70s. He got fiber this year from a private company, and his speeds beat mine, and it is dirt cheap. There is no logical explanation for the fact that his internet speeds beat mine, and I am a mile away from Google HQ.

prophesi 5y ago

I think that's the point. City > State > Federal > Telcom Monopolies in terms of your voice being heard.

sokoloff 5y ago
I agree that City > State > Comcast. I think Comcast > Federal, though, in terms of service level and individual voice. (With Comcast, my voice is 20dB under the noise floor. With the feds, it’s 10dB lower than that.) Plus, if you get something wrong federally, it’s enormously difficult, expensive, time-consuming, and unlikely to get fixed. If one or a few states get something wrong, you have as easier time showing comparables and proving that a better way is possible.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Speaking of getting things wrong... if Comcast runs some half baked DB query to flag problem customers and it flags a false positive on you you're just gonna get your service turned off. When the states and feds make those mistakes there's a body count or at the very least lives ruined. Comcast, or other BigCo will generally do the right thing to make you go away, after all, every dollar spent on fighting people is a dollar that could be profit. When government does wrong and gets called on it digs in its heels much, much harder.
giantg2 5y ago
Telecom can vary in it's place. I would put a local company around the city level because they are often invested in their communities. Really, I would say that goes for companies or government - the bigger they get, the more removed they are from what is going on in the customer/voter lives.

giantg2 5y ago

They aren't that much different in service quality and I don't like them either. You actually can get a vote at Concast if you buy stock, which can be more than what a single vote is worth at the federal level. The real difference is in how you can pressure them. Your single vote in the government covers a multitude of topics, in what is essentially a two choice system. You may need to vote contrary to your beliefs on one topic to protect your rights on another topic. In dealing with a single topic related to a company, you can concentrate your efforts through your voting stock, boycotts, etc. So, when a politician hears a minority complain about an issue, they have zero incentive to listen to you because they lose nothing due to the discrete nature of measuring sucess (minority votes no longer matter once you secure the majority to win). At least companies care about losing revenue because it's measured continuously. Look at how they fight to attract and retain customers through deals, competing with other companies, and even negative stuff like fighting municipal internet. The better choices are local companies and municipalities. This is because a person's voice is worth more and the concerns amongst the customers/voters tend to be more homogeneous than at higher levels.

FredPret 5y ago

Any huge, old, unaccountable organization is going to suck, government or corporation. The key is being accountable to the end user. Local governments with rational and active voters and corporations with energetic competitors usually do very well.

atotic 5y ago

Anecdote: I live in Palo Alto, and my entire neighborhood is on Comcast. In January, service got to be really bad, 1Mbs upload during the day. Comcast came out, said our local node was saturated at 92%, and that they have an upgrade planned a year from now, and that we can suck it till then. This is Palo Alto, the land of very vocal neighbors. They started a campaign where we all sent a complaint to the FCC. Within a week, we were personally contacted by a Comcast rep, techs came out, and suddenly I had 30Mbs up. And Comcast reps have been calling, emailing every week to make sure we are ok. Not sure what happened, the node did not get upgraded, but they fixed something. And another data point on how sad the situation is in the US: my brother lives in Belgrade, Serbia, in one of those concrete high-rises from the 70s. He got fiber this year from a private company, and his speeds beat mine, and it is dirt cheap. There is no logical explanation for the fact that his internet speeds beat mine, and I am a mile away from Google HQ.