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This is also why I don't let anyone else drive or have a bank account, or anything potentially dangerous at all. Free choice and the ability to make mistakes by

This is also why I don't let anyone else drive or have a bank account, or anything potentially dangerous at all. Free choice and the ability to make mistakes by ignorance means they can hurt themselves. Therefore the best solution is revoking that ability by force instead of putting the responsibility of learning unto them. It's perfectly acceptable that I get to control everything and crush businesses and users with anti competitive practices with my control. Or else - who's going to keep you 'safe'? The idea of loving apples walled garden comes from a position of extreme privledge. You have to have lots of money to afford apples ecosystem. The hard reality is just like automobiles an iphone has become a societal requirement to participate in the common market. You can't install 3rd party apps by default in android, you have to turn it on.

emteycz 6y ago
People should be able to freely choose a walled garden. There are benefits that might be important for the person choosing it, and other people can simply choose another platform. I don't see any reason why a single platform should be forced to cater to any and all.
- devwastaken 6y ago
  Not when theres only 2 choices, and effectively only 1 choice depending on your work. The rights of wider market and it's consumers involved are higher. This is precedent that's been set time and again in every other consumer facing industry and it applies just as well here.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Yes, even when there are only 2 choices. No customer has any right, legal or otherwise, for iPhone-the-universal-and-open-computing-device. Not only that, most customers are customers because it's a walled garden. What are you going to say to a company after it loses customers and revenue and its expenses rise because you took away what made it unique? "Sorry, that's how the system works?", I guess?
    - devwastaken 6y ago
      Yep, that's how the system works. I have no qualms with forcing the richest company in the world to play fair. You may be under the idea that computers are optional - they're not. Almost everyone has a mobile device, even homeless. They're required to participate in government and business. It's how we rent apartments, pay bills and operate in society. The market has become a public problem by apples hand. Markets no longer belong to their creators when they of their own choices create matters of significant public issue. Apple is not special. We have plenty of precedent from microsoft being forced to allow software before. Apple and friends have lobbied (bribed) heavily for antitrust and antimonopoly to no longer have teeth. If it were 30 years ago apple would have been put through the meat grinder. If we need the legal right then we'll legislate it.
      - skydhash 6y ago
        A lot of people here in my country would say no, that you're wrong. No mobile device for anything, physical presence and cash rule here.
      - emteycz 6y ago
        Yes, almost everyone has a computing device - and in these cases you listed it's never ever a iPhone. Even if it was, the fact that there is an open alternative is enough to let Apple be alone in making their luxury appliance.
the_local_host 6y ago
> Free choice and the ability to make mistakes... It sounds like the parent poster's relations have freely chosen to delegate their technology management to him or her, and in turn the poster is comfortable delegating that to Apple and their walled garden. If Apple is selling safety, security, and control, and people are buying it, what's the issue? Potentially the issue is a lack of competition in the market when there are too few options; but it sounds like you're saying that no one should prefer a walled garden option at all.

emteycz 6y ago

People should be able to freely choose a walled garden. There are benefits that might be important for the person choosing it, and other people can simply choose another platform. I don't see any reason why a single platform should be forced to cater to any and all.

devwastaken 6y ago
Not when theres only 2 choices, and effectively only 1 choice depending on your work. The rights of wider market and it's consumers involved are higher. This is precedent that's been set time and again in every other consumer facing industry and it applies just as well here.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Yes, even when there are only 2 choices. No customer has any right, legal or otherwise, for iPhone-the-universal-and-open-computing-device. Not only that, most customers are customers because it's a walled garden. What are you going to say to a company after it loses customers and revenue and its expenses rise because you took away what made it unique? "Sorry, that's how the system works?", I guess?
  - devwastaken 6y ago
    Yep, that's how the system works. I have no qualms with forcing the richest company in the world to play fair. You may be under the idea that computers are optional - they're not. Almost everyone has a mobile device, even homeless. They're required to participate in government and business. It's how we rent apartments, pay bills and operate in society. The market has become a public problem by apples hand. Markets no longer belong to their creators when they of their own choices create matters of significant public issue. Apple is not special. We have plenty of precedent from microsoft being forced to allow software before. Apple and friends have lobbied (bribed) heavily for antitrust and antimonopoly to no longer have teeth. If it were 30 years ago apple would have been put through the meat grinder. If we need the legal right then we'll legislate it.
    - skydhash 6y ago
      A lot of people here in my country would say no, that you're wrong. No mobile device for anything, physical presence and cash rule here.
    - emteycz 6y ago
      Yes, almost everyone has a computing device - and in these cases you listed it's never ever a iPhone. Even if it was, the fact that there is an open alternative is enough to let Apple be alone in making their luxury appliance.

the_local_host 6y ago

> Free choice and the ability to make mistakes... It sounds like the parent poster's relations have freely chosen to delegate their technology management to him or her, and in turn the poster is comfortable delegating that to Apple and their walled garden. If Apple is selling safety, security, and control, and people are buying it, what's the issue? Potentially the issue is a lack of competition in the market when there are too few options; but it sounds like you're saying that no one should prefer a walled garden option at all.