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Yes HN is great for championing useless projects, all the while crapping on the ideas that turn out to be huge; Dropbox, Gitlab, Coinbase etc. Oh well, it is e

Yes HN is great for championing useless projects, all the while crapping on the ideas that turn out to be huge; Dropbox, Gitlab, Coinbase etc. Oh well, it is entertaining!

dalbasal 6y ago
Yes, true. Picking winners is a hard game though... so I have sympathy for that part. The part that bothers me is crapping on other fields for things we would tolerate, even respect in our own. If a tech company was messing with 3d printing experimentally, released some esoteric and impractical new database alternative or somesuch... We might criticise, but this reaction to experimental architecture is extreme. I think a lot of it is the artsy language used by architects. It triggers HNers. Meanwhile, we appreciate abstract takes by pg, Stallman, or whatnot. Consider: "Free software is software that respects your freedom and the social solidarity of your community" - Stallman. This is OK to us, even though it probably sounds like meaningless ideological rambling to the uninitiated. Meanwhile: "The aesthetics of this house are the result of a technical and material effort, it was not an aesthetic approach only. It is an honest form, a sincere form.” is intolerable to many the HN community. The base assumption is that the emperor has no clothes and regicide is the only solution.
- jack_riminton 6y ago
  I see your point (although I am allergic to Architect-speak myself!)
  - dalbasal 6y ago
    I am too, instinctively... though I consciously try to push through it. OTOH, I think architect-speak is the actual glue between art philosophy and wider movements. Why is "postmodernism" (or modernism, etc.) an epistemology, political ideology, artistic sense and architectural school? They don't seem obviously related Why did Ayn Rand write about an architect to demonstrate her thoughts? Logical or not, these "movements" are connected somehow and they to ebb and flow together. There are a lot of lessons here for tech nerds. You could easily describe "agile vs waterfall" in modernist vs postmodernist terms. Apple & Google's product aesthetic does reflect typically modernist ideas... form from function or whatnot. A couple of years ago I went deep into talking to literal flat earthers (friends, whom I love). I learned (and still processing) a lot. Anti-intellectualism plays a fundamental role, but the key parts are a level or two deeper to that. You need to realize that psychologists, political "think tankers," dieticians or economists actually do present themselves as equally authoritative to physicists. They're wrong all the time, and many of their loudest talking points turn out to be fads in retrospect. EG Monetarism seems to be dying ATM, despite having been unchallengeable for 40 years. That happens in physics too, but relativity didn't make Newtonian mechanics seem like pseudoscience in retrospect. To a MOP though, there isn't an obviously discernible difference between Newtonian mechanics and the food pyramid. Both are intellectualism, claiming the authority of science. All they see is suits, academic titles, and positions of authority who get to be the authority. Anyway... because architect/artists speak can be bullshit, is often very clumsy, and we can't discern BS from insight, we assume it's all bullshit or a way to get away with bullshit. Often, its our own ignorance. I credit PG with bridging these worlds for me.

Yes HN is great for championing useless projects, all the while crapping on the ideas that turn out to be huge; Dropbox, Gitlab, Coinbase etc. Oh well, it is entertaining!

dalbasal 6y ago

Yes, true. Picking winners is a hard game though... so I have sympathy for that part. The part that bothers me is crapping on other fields for things we would tolerate, even respect in our own. If a tech company was messing with 3d printing experimentally, released some esoteric and impractical new database alternative or somesuch... We might criticise, but this reaction to experimental architecture is extreme. I think a lot of it is the artsy language used by architects. It triggers HNers. Meanwhile, we appreciate abstract takes by pg, Stallman, or whatnot. Consider: "Free software is software that respects your freedom and the social solidarity of your community" - Stallman. This is OK to us, even though it probably sounds like meaningless ideological rambling to the uninitiated. Meanwhile: "The aesthetics of this house are the result of a technical and material effort, it was not an aesthetic approach only. It is an honest form, a sincere form.” is intolerable to many the HN community. The base assumption is that the emperor has no clothes and regicide is the only solution.

jack_riminton 6y ago
I see your point (although I am allergic to Architect-speak myself!)
- dalbasal 6y ago
  I am too, instinctively... though I consciously try to push through it. OTOH, I think architect-speak is the actual glue between art philosophy and wider movements. Why is "postmodernism" (or modernism, etc.) an epistemology, political ideology, artistic sense and architectural school? They don't seem obviously related Why did Ayn Rand write about an architect to demonstrate her thoughts? Logical or not, these "movements" are connected somehow and they to ebb and flow together. There are a lot of lessons here for tech nerds. You could easily describe "agile vs waterfall" in modernist vs postmodernist terms. Apple & Google's product aesthetic does reflect typically modernist ideas... form from function or whatnot. A couple of years ago I went deep into talking to literal flat earthers (friends, whom I love). I learned (and still processing) a lot. Anti-intellectualism plays a fundamental role, but the key parts are a level or two deeper to that. You need to realize that psychologists, political "think tankers," dieticians or economists actually do present themselves as equally authoritative to physicists. They're wrong all the time, and many of their loudest talking points turn out to be fads in retrospect. EG Monetarism seems to be dying ATM, despite having been unchallengeable for 40 years. That happens in physics too, but relativity didn't make Newtonian mechanics seem like pseudoscience in retrospect. To a MOP though, there isn't an obviously discernible difference between Newtonian mechanics and the food pyramid. Both are intellectualism, claiming the authority of science. All they see is suits, academic titles, and positions of authority who get to be the authority. Anyway... because architect/artists speak can be bullshit, is often very clumsy, and we can't discern BS from insight, we assume it's all bullshit or a way to get away with bullshit. Often, its our own ignorance. I credit PG with bridging these worlds for me.