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I think you’re underestimating the trouble Intel is in. They are being absolutely stomped on by both AMD and Apple in terms of performance/efficiency, and if it
by slowwriter 5y ago
I think you’re underestimating the trouble Intel is in. They are being absolutely stomped on by both AMD and Apple in terms of performance/efficiency, and if it wasn’t for such high demand it would reflect heavily on sales. Also, AMD has begun R&D for ARM processors whereas that is nowhere to be found in Intel’s roadmap.
- greenknight 5y agoAlso remember that AMD had Jim Keller back in the day, for an integrated ARM / x86 CPU. They have done a lot of R&D already to date, not something recent!
- modeless 5y agoIntel isn't being stomped on by AMD and Apple. The stomper is TSMC (and Samsung to a lesser extent). Without TSMC, M1 and Zen 3 don't exist. (Quite literally in the case of Zen 3, as you still can't buy one!) It's all about the fabs.
- slowwriter 5y agoGood point, Intel’s primary weakness at the moment is definitely that they are failing at progressing their own fabrication process
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- zibzab 5y agoYou have been able to but Zen 3 laptops for a good while now. Not sure about desktop CPUs thought. But that's mostly because of apple reserving TSMC entire 5nm line, so AMD is still on 7nm (although they look extremely promising even on an older node)
- pedrocr 5y agoZen 3 laptops haven't even been properly announced and are definitely not shipping. Even the Zen 2 models are in very short supply. Desktop Zen 3 is what is shipping and quantities are very limited as demand is very high.
- zibzab 5y agoYou can order Asus Zen3 laptops such as ROG Zephyrus on Amazon today.
- pedrocr 5y agoI stand corrected. Seems like the 35W chips have indeed shipped. I've been waiting for the 15W parts to reach the Lenovo range.The part they'll use was only even announced a month ago. Even within those some of the 5000 generation are Zen 2 parts. Desktop has been out for much longer across the whole range but availability seems quite poor.
- kingosticks 5y agoApple did reportedly reserve all the initial 5nm capacity but I don't think we can say that's the reason AMD are still on 7nm. The early state of any node better lends itself to lower power, small SoCs. AMD may have been offered some capacity and turned it down because they prefer a more mature process for their larger chips with high-speed IO. Given the shortages now maybe with hindsight they regret that - who knows.
- lhoff 5y agoI don't know anything about other regions but Zen3 Desktop CPUs are available in multiple stores in Germany and Europe.
- floatboth 5y agoHow expensive is it in Germany? Russian retailers also had a decent supply, but the 5950X cost ~$1050 in the winter, ~$990 now. Which is a little bit more than the usual regional premium but honestly not too bad. GPU prices are much much worse. Over $1200 for a 6700XT – yes the one with a seven. 2.5 times the US MSRP :/
- alimbada 5y agoI don't know about where you are, but supply has caught up with demand for Zen 3 in the UK.
- blackoil 5y agoIntel runway got extended a lot due to current silicon crisis. There isn't enough o/p for people to completely stop buying the 14nm chips, which Intel can produce with high profitability.
- scotty79 5y agoBut is it the runway for the purposes of taking off or landing in less crashy manner? ;-)
- ksec 5y agoThat would have been true if Pat Gelsinger didn't became CEO. Worth pointing out Intel's R&D didn't stopped, all their CPU uArch design were done, only to be let down by their 10nm fiasco. That single misstep caused Intel years of setback. ( My calculation is somewhere around four years, they had 2 years lead at the time, so now they are about 2 years behind ) As some have pointed out, TSMC is the real competitor, not really Apple or AMD. So I was surprised how quickly Pat managed to open up Foundry with industry standard tools and ecosystem. I have been saying this since 2012 even before the original Intel custom foundry were announced. ( And constantly being attacked and abused by Intel Fans online) But to actually see Intel announcing it is a completely different thing. Especially knowing their strong inertia. In hindsight, it probably took that beating from 10nm before they could really go all in with Custom Foundry. ( "All in" as in with industry tools, they are still an IDM, not Pure Play ) And how the tide has turned. All of a sudden Leading Edge Foundry becomes a national security concern. And Intel should rip all the benefits from it. It was Andy Grove first started moving away from DRAM in the late 1980s, and may be his disciple will be the one who start to move away from x86 as core business.
- slowwriter 5y agoSay Intel does only take two years to turn around x86. They are a big company with lots of resources and talent, so even though in my mind it seems difficult they surely have a chance. Meanwhile, AMD gets a headstart on ARM and leaves Intel in the dust on that front. I don't see Intel winning one way or another. I think it will take many years for them to potentially come back as no. 1 in the industry.
- Hikikomori 5y agoJim Keller was in part hired to work on K12 which was an ARM cpu which they were working on at the same time as Zen.
- ksec 5y agoI didn't say they will lead in two years. But they have a much stronger position going forward and be able to compete. ( Compare to dying in a slow death before Pat came back ) Right now they aren't really "competing", more like holding AMD back. Look at AMD's entrance into Cloud / DC market, they are barely 10% by even the most optimistic standard. If you take out the consoles sales number, the DC market for AMD isn't as rosy as many want people to presume. ( I would have wanted them to be close to 20% by now. Although Mark papermaster have shown their ambition for 30%+. Which is the only good sign I would take.) Also reminder AMD isn't in the forefront of leading edge node, they tend to wait for mainstream. Apple is the one paying premium. ( Although TSMC sudden 5 / 3nm acceleration seems to suggest a change in strategy, we will see )
- FuriouslyAdrift 5y agoAMD has made ARM chips before (2016) for servers. https://www.amd.com/en/amd-opteron-a1100 https://www.amd.com/en/amd-opteron-a1100 Never seen one in the wild, though.