4 ms·

Naively assuming ffmpeg and others aren't too happy that their hard work gets used in questionable military or LE operations. Perhaps a more restrictive license

Naively assuming ffmpeg and others aren't too happy that their hard work gets used in questionable military or LE operations. Perhaps a more restrictive license[1] can help fight companies like NSO Group, Cellebrite & Co (and continue the momentum Signal created). Best case it would make it illegal for them to use the software and worst make the possibility to use public patches much harder. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14864197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14864197 (from the top comment): > Linked below is an example to restrict military use. Note though, it's so broad reaching that it might scare away even non-military organizations for using your software. And it still doesn't address how you enforce such license. So there's lots of questions about the applicable of this example license. http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/license2.pdf http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/license2.pdf -------------------------- EDIT: Such a license would probably no longer be fully open source (afaik). Perhaps it's time to create a new breed of license that allows people to build systems where they know their work isn't going to be used to guide a missile or get someone killed for their sexual, political or religious believes.

Hamuko 6y ago
Wasn't Cellebrite already violating Apple's copyright?
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  allegedly afaik. the Signal post pointed out a dll that looked like it belonged to Apple and it was unclear if they had permission from Apple if so.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    Then they probably don't give a shit about what the ffmpeg license says.
dmak 6y ago
I don't think a license is going to stop them from adopting the software. Their current FFMpeg is 9 years out of date! That should illustrate the diligence already.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  It's not illegal to use outdated software. It would be illegal to use tools without a license. That might very well put pressure on LEA to abandon Cellebrite for a vendor that makes stronger promises[1] here. Also LEA could very well now be reminded to not break the law themselves and put pressure on vendors. Somebody in charge of procurement doesn't usually care much about the finer details of whether it works or is the right tool (they have other people to decide upon which tools they might find useful to procure). But procurement does take not over licensing cost and its terms. Also licensing cost has always been a issue with justifying use of Cellebrite. Any excuse to switch to a different product would just be icing on the cake. E.g. 1 seat for Cellebrite costs about as much as a Grayshift license for the whole team. [1] whether that will improve things for the person that finds themselves as the target of these tools is another matter.
  - polar 6y ago
    > That might very well put pressure on LEA to abandon Cellebrite for a vendor that makes stronger promises[1] here. Hahaha. I can't wait till HN finds out about how rubbish the other vendors are.
Proven 6y ago
> Naively assuming ffmpeg and others aren't too happy that their hard work gets used in questionable military or LE operations. Who cares what makes them happy. What matters is the license. > Perhaps it's time to create a new breed of license that allows people to build systems where they know their work isn't going to be used to guide a missile or get someone killed for their sexual, political or religious believes. Dime a dozen. We surely need one more.

Hamuko 6y ago

Wasn't Cellebrite already violating Apple's copyright?

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
allegedly afaik. the Signal post pointed out a dll that looked like it belonged to Apple and it was unclear if they had permission from Apple if so.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Then they probably don't give a shit about what the ffmpeg license says.

dmak 6y ago

I don't think a license is going to stop them from adopting the software. Their current FFMpeg is 9 years out of date! That should illustrate the diligence already.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
It's not illegal to use outdated software. It would be illegal to use tools without a license. That might very well put pressure on LEA to abandon Cellebrite for a vendor that makes stronger promises[1] here. Also LEA could very well now be reminded to not break the law themselves and put pressure on vendors. Somebody in charge of procurement doesn't usually care much about the finer details of whether it works or is the right tool (they have other people to decide upon which tools they might find useful to procure). But procurement does take not over licensing cost and its terms. Also licensing cost has always been a issue with justifying use of Cellebrite. Any excuse to switch to a different product would just be icing on the cake. E.g. 1 seat for Cellebrite costs about as much as a Grayshift license for the whole team. [1] whether that will improve things for the person that finds themselves as the target of these tools is another matter.
- polar 6y ago
  > That might very well put pressure on LEA to abandon Cellebrite for a vendor that makes stronger promises[1] here. Hahaha. I can't wait till HN finds out about how rubbish the other vendors are.

Proven 6y ago

> Naively assuming ffmpeg and others aren't too happy that their hard work gets used in questionable military or LE operations. Who cares what makes them happy. What matters is the license. > Perhaps it's time to create a new breed of license that allows people to build systems where they know their work isn't going to be used to guide a missile or get someone killed for their sexual, political or religious believes. Dime a dozen. We surely need one more.