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I'm surprised this doesn't mention gas stoves and ovens. Gas is the "high end" option, yet creates totally unnecessary PM2.5 pollution in your home. Children gr

I'm surprised this doesn't mention gas stoves and ovens. Gas is the "high end" option, yet creates totally unnecessary PM2.5 pollution in your home. Children growing up with gas stoves have higher rates of asthma.

eli 6y ago
Some California cities were banning gas hookup on new homes. It’s all gonna be electric in the future.
ReactiveJelly 6y ago
> Gas is the "high end" option Few years ago I moved from a little apartment with an electric range to an SFH with gas everything. "Good for you," my gas-enthusiast family said, "now you have a REAL stove" It still takes forever to boil water in a pot. The food tastes the same. I wonder why furnaces have these fancy high-efficiency heat exchangers and stoves don't? Cost? I wouldn't mind going back to electric. I just assumed it cost more, but maybe cooking isn't significant compared to running a furnace.
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago
  You can get some really high power induction stoves now. This one we have goes up to 12KW at full power. Boils a pot of water real fast.
- amatecha 6y ago
  It does take a while to boil water (although not nearly as long in my experience), and food tastes the same, but there's essentially zero time waiting for the heating element to heat up. For me that's the big difference -- near-instant control over the amount of heat being applied.
  - amatecha 6y ago
    Why would someone downvote that? Pretty lame. I'm sharing my personal, relevant experience. Make a comment if you somehow disagree or thing I missed the mark... Like.. what?
- exmadscientist 6y ago
  > I wonder why furnaces have these fancy high-efficiency heat exchangers and stoves don't? Cost? I don't see how a design like that would work for a range. The purpose of a range is to heat small, movable objects (pots) to high temperatures (~500°F) with good responsiveness (= short time constants). The purpose of a furnace or water heater is to heat fluids contained in large spaces or tanks to modest temperatures (~100°F) with very limited responsiveness (= long time constants). The heat exchanger really helps the case of heating a stream of fluid, as that's where the exchange is most useful. The physical and thermal mass of the heat exchanger and flue condenser are both considerable. I'm not seeing how to make a gas rangetop significantly more thermally responsive without making it no longer practical. For people who can't abide gas for whatever reason, induction units are supposedly excellent these days. (I've never tried one. They can't possibly be worse than an electric smoothtop range, though!)
- pasabagi 6y ago
  I think the point is control. Induction stoves are pretty good for dumping watts into water. However, it's very hard to get a good mid-range temperature. Gas makes it really straightforward to get something cooking at exactly the heat you want.
  - pilsetnieks 6y ago
    Most electric stoves are non-induction.
    - pasabagi 6y ago
      I imagine this will change, though. I would have thought induction hobs are cheaper to produce, since it's just a copper coil and a bunch of power mosfets.
  - wikibob 6y ago
    Strongly disagree. Induction is AMAZING and has wonderful midrange temperature control. Many professional kitchens have switched. Are you sure you’ve used an induction stove and not just a regular electric stove? Glass flat top electric stoves are not usually not induction stoves though they look the same.
    - pasabagi 6y ago
      Maybe just the models I've used? I think I have tried 5 different models in the last few years, from the very cheap, to the relatively pricey, and all were relatively lacking when it came to fine control. I don't think there's any real reason why they shouldn't have fine temperature control - presumably the temperature is controlled by the switching speed of the mosfets in the coils?
- fossuser 6y ago
  I think it used to boil faster? My grandma replaced her stove and noticed it took forever to boil. The service guy said regulations around the volume of gas have increased the time it takes to boil water. No idea if that's true or not, but I'd believe it.
williamsmj 6y ago
I don't think we should do domestic cooking with gas for reasons that include respiratory health, but it's worth noting that the link between modern domestic gas ovens and childhood asthma is very weak relative to other risk factors, which might be why it's not mentioned in the article. "When the meta-analysis puts everything together, they come to the conclusion that gas cooking produces a small increase in asthma risk for children, perhaps a 1.5 percentage point increase in risk." (https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/gas-stoves-finally https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/gas-stoves-finally)
- modeless 6y ago
  The study in question: "Our meta-analyses suggest that children living in a home with gas cooking have a 42% increased risk of having current asthma, a 24% increased risk of lifetime asthma and an overall 32% increased risk of having current and lifetime asthma." https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113 https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113 To me, a 24% increase in risk of lifetime asthma is significant and well worth avoiding both at an individual level and a societal level, given that good alternatives are readily available. Given this 24% number, I guess the "1.5 percentage points" you quoted must be the absolute increase in asthma prevalence across the population, i.e. gas stoves in every home would cause 1.5% of people to develop asthma (when they otherwise wouldn't have it). That seems quite bad actually. If true, not using gas stoves (currently in 35% of households) could have prevented over a million cases of asthma in the US alone.
occz 6y ago
Very interesting to me that gas is considered the 'high end'-option, I presume in the U.S? Where I live, the high end-option is to get an induction stove. I have one, and it's extremely pleasant to cook on. Granted, I've never cooked on gas because that alternative is mostly not used, in my experience.
- ac29 6y ago
  Induction is rapidly gaining popularity in the US as a high end option as well.
- garmaine 6y ago
  Depends on what you’re cooking, but there are many types of cuisine that simply need gas burners to be properly cooked.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    Unless you are doing it on open flame I have no idea how that might be possible. Heat is heat.
    - garmaine 6y ago
      Heat is not equally intense or similarly distributed between different stove types. Gas cooking delivers intense heat along a trajectory that follows the curve of the pan, and allows for thin pan materials with low heat capacity. The natural result of this is the wok, which cooks the best over a gas flame on high settings. Want a restaurant-quality stir-fry? Your only choice is a wok on an intense gas plume. The thin material of the wok gives it low heat capacity, meaning that when you turn on the heat it rises in temperature very fast, and cools relatively fast when you turn it off. This allows very precise control necessary to get the best flavor. The wok is curved, which is critical to mixing ingredients correctly while cooking, but the gas flame does a fine job of following the form of the pan to give adequate heating throughout. Electric or induction stoves come short on both aspects: you need thicker pans (higher heat capacity) with flatter resistive elements built-in. You simply can't get the same flavor with those setups. So no, it's not so simple as "heat is heat." Pay attention to the kitchen next time you're in a Chinese or Thai restaurant. They really make use of the industrial gas-powered ranges that are universally equipped in their kitchens.
ramchip 6y ago
It really depends where you live, where I live in Asia electric (induction) is the high end option and gas is the standard. Electric also doesn't work great with a wok.

eli 6y ago

Some California cities were banning gas hookup on new homes. It’s all gonna be electric in the future.

ReactiveJelly 6y ago

> Gas is the "high end" option Few years ago I moved from a little apartment with an electric range to an SFH with gas everything. "Good for you," my gas-enthusiast family said, "now you have a REAL stove" It still takes forever to boil water in a pot. The food tastes the same. I wonder why furnaces have these fancy high-efficiency heat exchangers and stoves don't? Cost? I wouldn't mind going back to electric. I just assumed it cost more, but maybe cooking isn't significant compared to running a furnace.

PurpleFoxy 6y ago
You can get some really high power induction stoves now. This one we have goes up to 12KW at full power. Boils a pot of water real fast.
amatecha 6y ago
It does take a while to boil water (although not nearly as long in my experience), and food tastes the same, but there's essentially zero time waiting for the heating element to heat up. For me that's the big difference -- near-instant control over the amount of heat being applied.
- amatecha 6y ago
  Why would someone downvote that? Pretty lame. I'm sharing my personal, relevant experience. Make a comment if you somehow disagree or thing I missed the mark... Like.. what?
exmadscientist 6y ago
> I wonder why furnaces have these fancy high-efficiency heat exchangers and stoves don't? Cost? I don't see how a design like that would work for a range. The purpose of a range is to heat small, movable objects (pots) to high temperatures (~500°F) with good responsiveness (= short time constants). The purpose of a furnace or water heater is to heat fluids contained in large spaces or tanks to modest temperatures (~100°F) with very limited responsiveness (= long time constants). The heat exchanger really helps the case of heating a stream of fluid, as that's where the exchange is most useful. The physical and thermal mass of the heat exchanger and flue condenser are both considerable. I'm not seeing how to make a gas rangetop significantly more thermally responsive without making it no longer practical. For people who can't abide gas for whatever reason, induction units are supposedly excellent these days. (I've never tried one. They can't possibly be worse than an electric smoothtop range, though!)
pasabagi 6y ago
I think the point is control. Induction stoves are pretty good for dumping watts into water. However, it's very hard to get a good mid-range temperature. Gas makes it really straightforward to get something cooking at exactly the heat you want.
- pilsetnieks 6y ago
  Most electric stoves are non-induction.
  - pasabagi 6y ago
    I imagine this will change, though. I would have thought induction hobs are cheaper to produce, since it's just a copper coil and a bunch of power mosfets.
- wikibob 6y ago
  Strongly disagree. Induction is AMAZING and has wonderful midrange temperature control. Many professional kitchens have switched. Are you sure you’ve used an induction stove and not just a regular electric stove? Glass flat top electric stoves are not usually not induction stoves though they look the same.
  - pasabagi 6y ago
    Maybe just the models I've used? I think I have tried 5 different models in the last few years, from the very cheap, to the relatively pricey, and all were relatively lacking when it came to fine control. I don't think there's any real reason why they shouldn't have fine temperature control - presumably the temperature is controlled by the switching speed of the mosfets in the coils?
fossuser 6y ago
I think it used to boil faster? My grandma replaced her stove and noticed it took forever to boil. The service guy said regulations around the volume of gas have increased the time it takes to boil water. No idea if that's true or not, but I'd believe it.

williamsmj 6y ago

I don't think we should do domestic cooking with gas for reasons that include respiratory health, but it's worth noting that the link between modern domestic gas ovens and childhood asthma is very weak relative to other risk factors, which might be why it's not mentioned in the article. "When the meta-analysis puts everything together, they come to the conclusion that gas cooking produces a small increase in asthma risk for children, perhaps a 1.5 percentage point increase in risk." (https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/gas-stoves-finally https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/gas-stoves-finally)

modeless 6y ago
The study in question: "Our meta-analyses suggest that children living in a home with gas cooking have a 42% increased risk of having current asthma, a 24% increased risk of lifetime asthma and an overall 32% increased risk of having current and lifetime asthma." https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113 https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113 To me, a 24% increase in risk of lifetime asthma is significant and well worth avoiding both at an individual level and a societal level, given that good alternatives are readily available. Given this 24% number, I guess the "1.5 percentage points" you quoted must be the absolute increase in asthma prevalence across the population, i.e. gas stoves in every home would cause 1.5% of people to develop asthma (when they otherwise wouldn't have it). That seems quite bad actually. If true, not using gas stoves (currently in 35% of households) could have prevented over a million cases of asthma in the US alone.

occz 6y ago

Very interesting to me that gas is considered the 'high end'-option, I presume in the U.S? Where I live, the high end-option is to get an induction stove. I have one, and it's extremely pleasant to cook on. Granted, I've never cooked on gas because that alternative is mostly not used, in my experience.

ac29 6y ago
Induction is rapidly gaining popularity in the US as a high end option as well.
garmaine 6y ago
Depends on what you’re cooking, but there are many types of cuisine that simply need gas burners to be properly cooked.
- scotty79 6y ago
  Unless you are doing it on open flame I have no idea how that might be possible. Heat is heat.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Heat is not equally intense or similarly distributed between different stove types. Gas cooking delivers intense heat along a trajectory that follows the curve of the pan, and allows for thin pan materials with low heat capacity. The natural result of this is the wok, which cooks the best over a gas flame on high settings. Want a restaurant-quality stir-fry? Your only choice is a wok on an intense gas plume. The thin material of the wok gives it low heat capacity, meaning that when you turn on the heat it rises in temperature very fast, and cools relatively fast when you turn it off. This allows very precise control necessary to get the best flavor. The wok is curved, which is critical to mixing ingredients correctly while cooking, but the gas flame does a fine job of following the form of the pan to give adequate heating throughout. Electric or induction stoves come short on both aspects: you need thicker pans (higher heat capacity) with flatter resistive elements built-in. You simply can't get the same flavor with those setups. So no, it's not so simple as "heat is heat." Pay attention to the kitchen next time you're in a Chinese or Thai restaurant. They really make use of the industrial gas-powered ranges that are universally equipped in their kitchens.

ramchip 6y ago

It really depends where you live, where I live in Asia electric (induction) is the high end option and gas is the standard. Electric also doesn't work great with a wok.