5 ms·

Here we go again with the "white supremacist" boogeyman. Not worth discussing this because such discussions never change anyone's minds.

snotrockets 6y ago
It's only a boogeyman if you're white.
- busymom0 6y ago
  I don't see how skin color is relevant but since your comment enjoys assigning responsbilities based on skin color - I am a brown immigrant. Divide and conquer has been used for centuries and is what’s being used as usual to get political points. Nothing new about it. Your comment is doing the same racism which you claim to be against. Usually the next response is to call me an Uncle Tom for not falling for the boogeyman and going along with the narrative. Anything which doesn't fit the establishment narrative gets classfied as "white supremacist" and other such labels now a days - just like your comment did. Ps. Won’t be replying further because this discussion is neither relevant nor productive, plus probably borderline breaks HN rules.
smcl 6y ago
Well we are talking about companies with questionable ethical practices. It would be weird to NOT mention the neo-nazi tolerance when suggesting epik in a discussion like this.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  As someone who has a lot to lose if nazis ever get back in power: isn't the correct thing to still register their domains and just go to the police with it? Based on my sysadmin background I actively try to know as little about my customers as possible: sure I might become a hero whistleblower but more likely I'll taint myself in various ways.
  - smcl 6y ago
    I think life as a neo-nazi should be as difficult as humanly possible so I'd try find a way to boot them off any service I operate. It's likely many hosting providers etc have a "no illegal stuff or neo-nazi shit" clause in their TOS. A few of these sites have bounced around providers before landing with Epik, so it doesn't seem to be rare or hard to do. It's a choice Epik have made to, if not welcome them then tolerate them. Sorry if that might seem naive, if it makes anyone feel better I'm not operating a domain registrar or hosting provider so my opinion is kind of moot anyway :)
    - skinkestek 6y ago
      > I think life as a neo-nazi should be as difficult as humanly possible We are not far away from each other on the goal here it seems only in how to achieve it.
    - busymom0 6y ago
      When one doesn't defend free speech for those they don't like, then they don't care about free speech. Would you rather have them run their site in open so people can simply not visit their site and others can watch for vile stuff they might be talking about? Or put them under the rug so they go even more underground with even less opposing view points and thus falling in their echo chambers? Also now a days any opposing speech gets classified as nazis and white supremacist etc labels. Take Tulsi Gabbard getting her Adsense account censored by Google for example and getting called a russian agent and then it escalating to her supporters being called nazis and Assad toadies. Bernie supporters got called misogynsts for political purposes. The censorship tools always get abused eventually on those who advocated for it. Related article on how ACLU used to defend free speech of even neo-nazis but have since then abandoned their principles and now actively give their data to Facebook: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstains-from https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstain... https://news.yahoo.com/aclu-says-shares-user-data-134345916.html https://news.yahoo.com/aclu-says-shares-user-data-134345916.... Now censorship is being used against animal rights groups: https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/the-targets-of-bidens-war-on-domestic https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/the-targets-of-bidens-w... Even CloudFlare defended hosting terrorist site for "free speech" reasons: https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddles-its-role-as-privacy-champion-and-hate-speech-enabler https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddle... https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-free-speech/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-free-speech/
elzbardico 6y ago
White supremacist groups are the for left what communists are for the right. In both cases, an absurdly overrated bogeyman and unchecked paranoia
- snotrockets 6y ago
  Communists have no real power at the moment; the worse they can currently achieve is too long and heated political discussions and some graffiti. White supremacists, on the other hand, are actually violent, as we all seen this last January.

snotrockets 6y ago

It's only a boogeyman if you're white.

busymom0 6y ago
I don't see how skin color is relevant but since your comment enjoys assigning responsbilities based on skin color - I am a brown immigrant. Divide and conquer has been used for centuries and is what’s being used as usual to get political points. Nothing new about it. Your comment is doing the same racism which you claim to be against. Usually the next response is to call me an Uncle Tom for not falling for the boogeyman and going along with the narrative. Anything which doesn't fit the establishment narrative gets classfied as "white supremacist" and other such labels now a days - just like your comment did. Ps. Won’t be replying further because this discussion is neither relevant nor productive, plus probably borderline breaks HN rules.

smcl 6y ago

Well we are talking about companies with questionable ethical practices. It would be weird to NOT mention the neo-nazi tolerance when suggesting epik in a discussion like this.

skinkestek 6y ago
As someone who has a lot to lose if nazis ever get back in power: isn't the correct thing to still register their domains and just go to the police with it? Based on my sysadmin background I actively try to know as little about my customers as possible: sure I might become a hero whistleblower but more likely I'll taint myself in various ways.
- smcl 6y ago
  I think life as a neo-nazi should be as difficult as humanly possible so I'd try find a way to boot them off any service I operate. It's likely many hosting providers etc have a "no illegal stuff or neo-nazi shit" clause in their TOS. A few of these sites have bounced around providers before landing with Epik, so it doesn't seem to be rare or hard to do. It's a choice Epik have made to, if not welcome them then tolerate them. Sorry if that might seem naive, if it makes anyone feel better I'm not operating a domain registrar or hosting provider so my opinion is kind of moot anyway :)
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    > I think life as a neo-nazi should be as difficult as humanly possible We are not far away from each other on the goal here it seems only in how to achieve it.
  - busymom0 6y ago
    When one doesn't defend free speech for those they don't like, then they don't care about free speech. Would you rather have them run their site in open so people can simply not visit their site and others can watch for vile stuff they might be talking about? Or put them under the rug so they go even more underground with even less opposing view points and thus falling in their echo chambers? Also now a days any opposing speech gets classified as nazis and white supremacist etc labels. Take Tulsi Gabbard getting her Adsense account censored by Google for example and getting called a russian agent and then it escalating to her supporters being called nazis and Assad toadies. Bernie supporters got called misogynsts for political purposes. The censorship tools always get abused eventually on those who advocated for it. Related article on how ACLU used to defend free speech of even neo-nazis but have since then abandoned their principles and now actively give their data to Facebook: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstains-from https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstain... https://news.yahoo.com/aclu-says-shares-user-data-134345916.html https://news.yahoo.com/aclu-says-shares-user-data-134345916.... Now censorship is being used against animal rights groups: https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/the-targets-of-bidens-war-on-domestic https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/the-targets-of-bidens-w... Even CloudFlare defended hosting terrorist site for "free speech" reasons: https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddles-its-role-as-privacy-champion-and-hate-speech-enabler https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddle... https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-free-speech/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-free-speech/

elzbardico 6y ago

White supremacist groups are the for left what communists are for the right. In both cases, an absurdly overrated bogeyman and unchecked paranoia

snotrockets 6y ago
Communists have no real power at the moment; the worse they can currently achieve is too long and heated political discussions and some graffiti. White supremacists, on the other hand, are actually violent, as we all seen this last January.