6 ms·

That's nice and all, but the rest of us would like to be able to use our hardware, that we paid for up front, for whatever we need. Unfortunately iOS boots wit

by edrxty 6y ago

That's nice and all, but the rest of us would like to be able to use our hardware, that we paid for up front, for whatever we need. Unfortunately iOS boots with an encrypted bootloader, so you can't replace it, and once booted, only supports this lovely walled garden of cat-meme consumption.

havernator 6y ago
Then choose something else? I mean, lobby for the change if you like, but you're eliminating my favored choice if you succeed.
- edrxty 6y ago
  We can both have our cake and eat it too, we just need either an unlocked bootloader, or the ability to sideload apps over an ADB-like usb interface. People who don't want that functionality will never know it's there and there won't be any decrease in security.
  - havernator 6y ago
    Unlocked boot loader would be fine. Sideloading's fine as long as the UI's bad enough that normal people can't, say, click a link on a website and keep clicking "OK" until the app's installed on their phone, and it also can't (somehow? Not sure how this restriction would be enforced) be scripted into a desktop-based store (as ADB could be, and likely would have been if alternative stores couldn't just be installed directly on Android devices). Essentially as long as nothing threatens Apple's ability to tell other companies, including other tech giants, to play ball or pound sand, I'm fine with it.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      It probably reduces security - if your phone gets taken by a government to be analyzed. Authoritarian governments would probably require side loaded apps.
    - jjav 6y ago
      > Essentially as long as nothing threatens Apple's ability to tell other companies, including other tech giants, to play ball or pound sand, I'm fine with it. Is your premise is that the vast majority of iOS users want the Apple control of apps exactly as it is today? If that premise is true, then having additional app stores available will not change your experience at all. The vast majority, as you assert, of iOS users will want no part in the alternative app stores, thus the Apple app store retains dominance and Apple doesn't need to change their behavior at all. So nothing changes for you. And the few oddballs who want to run non-Apple-approved software, still can, but they'll be a fringe. But if you're worried that there will be a mass exodus to the non-Apple app store, (if that was allowed) then I'm hearing that there is in fact large percentages of unhappy users, which is itself proof that removing control from Apple is required. What doesn't make sense it simultaneously assert that nearly all iOS users are happy with the Apple iron fist but large percentage of them are itching to break away from it the second they could. One or the other can be true, not both.
  - macintux 6y ago
    As soon as Apple offers that, companies like Facebook will tell their users that in order to install their apps, they have to sideload it. And people will go willingly into that dark night.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
hugi 6y ago
Sounds like you don't want an iPhone. So buy a different phone that does what you want.
- edrxty 6y ago
  I have several in fact, including the PinePhone which I quite like but isn't really ready for daily use. The issue is Apple is developing a monopoly on high end hardware and there are fewer reasonable options by the day.
  - leadingthenet 6y ago
    And there’s a reason for that. You’re making the mistake of thinking Apple’s special sauce is the hardware. It’s not. It’s the experience.
    - shawnz 6y ago
      I don't think they were making any kind of claim about Apple's "special sauce", only that Apple has a monopoly on high-end hardware, which is true.
      - fossuser 6y ago
        It is a little weird though. - Apple has built a world wide empire selling these products in this way people seem to like - As a result Apple has funneled that money and made world class hardware that's better than everyone else and leads in security/privacy - Therefore we should force them to break their model because the others that didn't follow suit have hardware that sucks That's not the most charitable interpretation, but there's some truth to it. There’s some extra irony that the others in this case fuck over their users by leveraging their data to target ads.
        leadingthenet 6y ago
        Yes, thank you. That's the idea I wanted to express, but only managed to do so in a much less capable way.

by edrxty 6y ago

havernator 6y ago

Then choose something else? I mean, lobby for the change if you like, but you're eliminating my favored choice if you succeed.

edrxty 6y ago
We can both have our cake and eat it too, we just need either an unlocked bootloader, or the ability to sideload apps over an ADB-like usb interface. People who don't want that functionality will never know it's there and there won't be any decrease in security.
- havernator 6y ago
  Unlocked boot loader would be fine. Sideloading's fine as long as the UI's bad enough that normal people can't, say, click a link on a website and keep clicking "OK" until the app's installed on their phone, and it also can't (somehow? Not sure how this restriction would be enforced) be scripted into a desktop-based store (as ADB could be, and likely would have been if alternative stores couldn't just be installed directly on Android devices). Essentially as long as nothing threatens Apple's ability to tell other companies, including other tech giants, to play ball or pound sand, I'm fine with it.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    It probably reduces security - if your phone gets taken by a government to be analyzed. Authoritarian governments would probably require side loaded apps.
  - jjav 6y ago
    > Essentially as long as nothing threatens Apple's ability to tell other companies, including other tech giants, to play ball or pound sand, I'm fine with it. Is your premise is that the vast majority of iOS users want the Apple control of apps exactly as it is today? If that premise is true, then having additional app stores available will not change your experience at all. The vast majority, as you assert, of iOS users will want no part in the alternative app stores, thus the Apple app store retains dominance and Apple doesn't need to change their behavior at all. So nothing changes for you. And the few oddballs who want to run non-Apple-approved software, still can, but they'll be a fringe. But if you're worried that there will be a mass exodus to the non-Apple app store, (if that was allowed) then I'm hearing that there is in fact large percentages of unhappy users, which is itself proof that removing control from Apple is required. What doesn't make sense it simultaneously assert that nearly all iOS users are happy with the Apple iron fist but large percentage of them are itching to break away from it the second they could. One or the other can be true, not both.
- macintux 6y ago
  As soon as Apple offers that, companies like Facebook will tell their users that in order to install their apps, they have to sideload it. And people will go willingly into that dark night.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

hugi 6y ago

Sounds like you don't want an iPhone. So buy a different phone that does what you want.

edrxty 6y ago
I have several in fact, including the PinePhone which I quite like but isn't really ready for daily use. The issue is Apple is developing a monopoly on high end hardware and there are fewer reasonable options by the day.
- leadingthenet 6y ago
  And there’s a reason for that. You’re making the mistake of thinking Apple’s special sauce is the hardware. It’s not. It’s the experience.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    I don't think they were making any kind of claim about Apple's "special sauce", only that Apple has a monopoly on high-end hardware, which is true.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      It is a little weird though. - Apple has built a world wide empire selling these products in this way people seem to like - As a result Apple has funneled that money and made world class hardware that's better than everyone else and leads in security/privacy - Therefore we should force them to break their model because the others that didn't follow suit have hardware that sucks That's not the most charitable interpretation, but there's some truth to it. There’s some extra irony that the others in this case fuck over their users by leveraging their data to target ads.
      - leadingthenet 6y ago
        Yes, thank you. That's the idea I wanted to express, but only managed to do so in a much less capable way.