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I specifically buy Apple products because I trust their App Store. I trust Apple with my information. I’m counting on these guys to get out software I download

I specifically buy Apple products because I trust their App Store. I trust Apple with my information. I’m counting on these guys to get out software I download from the App Store. And I trust them to protect my privacy, better than anyone else. You’re calling them anti consumer. But that’s wrong. This is why I give them my business, and if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device, I’d exit the Apple ecosystem and buy a $300 phone instead of a $1000 phone. It’s actually that simple. Edit: Sitting at -2 votes because people don’t approve of my consumer habits. Censor people you don’t agree with instead of having an actual response. Okay.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
I seek this asinine take everywhere around here. Opening these platforms doesn't kill them, it forces them to compete.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- parasubvert 5y ago
  It is not asinine just because you disagree. They already are competing. There is Android, and there is iOS. Apple certainly could be hemmed in on clear areas of conflict like Spotify. Opening the platform is not traditional antitrust because consumers like it this way - it’s more about charity for the competition.
  - twitch-chat 5y ago
    By consumers do you mean the loud but very small minority that defend Apple in comment sections of online articles? Because if you ask me, my guess is that the average Apple consumer couldn't care less if the platform is opened up or not.
    - parasubvert 5y ago
      By consumers I mean the people that vote with their wallets by buying iOS devices. If it helps you sleep at night, keep thinking it’s a very small minority. It’s really not.
      - saurik 5y ago
        I'm glad you realized the connection with voting, because it is the same issue in a real sense: no one gets to vote for an open or a closed system, they only get to vote for an iPhone or a Samsung (which is pretty locked down) or some random third-party phone that will probably suck; you are acting as if the people who voted for an iPhone are agreeing with every single decision made about that platform instead of merely wanting it "on the balance". I honestly mostly use Apple devices because I think their touch screens and trackpads are so good as to be "evil magic"... I thereby own a zillion of them and even use them as my personal devices despite also currently suing them over this very anti-competitive App Store issue, and yet my "vote"--and the votes of everyone like me (and I imagine there are many many such people)--are being counted by you as "voting with my wallet" for a closed system. The reality is that I am simply making the best of a shitty situation with buying an iPhone, and the fact that Apple is able to get away with having a closed system because of some other key benefit doesn't mean they should get to do so :/. Hell: at this point, it would be extremely expensive to switch platforms, because Apple and Google have conspired to build a massive wall preventing people from importing purchases of apps from one platform to the other. I would even lose easy access to all of the music and movies I had gotten on iTunes (which is another reason a lot of people get Apple devices: because they are tied into a vertical content monopoly and a lot of the content I want is effectively only available from Apple). ...and like, I hope you realize that the ridiculously large number of people who bought and iPhone and then--despite it being extremely difficult to do so with requiring the usage of often scary software from annoyingly people from random websites--jailbreak it so they can fix this one key flaw they see in this product... a number that is already stupid high--we tended to get like 12% of users at steady state--but which would obviously be extremely high if only it could have been easier to do!
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    I think it's asinine. Fragmentation: If Apple competes well there won't be any because their app store will be the best on merit not at gunpoint. Safety: Don't sideload or install unsigned apps. Keep your phone up to date. This doesn't change much except possibly give you the option to be unsafe. Payment processing: We already see integration with Cash app, Google wallet, Apple pay, Stripe, PayPal, etc. This is not an issue.
    - parasubvert 5y ago
      Gunpoint? This is rich from a bunch of tinkerers and competitors that literally want the people with guns to force Apple to change its platform because competing with them is too hard, and Android sucks so badly as an alternative. Consumers certainly aren’t making these arguments.
- tracer4201 5y ago
  Yes, you know better than me and my opinion is stupid and foolish. Your post doesn’t really offer than alternative take. All you did is bully me and engage in cyber harassment. When your immediate response is to have an emotional outburst and tell people they’re stupid, it actually shows you lack intelligence.
fredophile 5y ago
Part of the problem I have with them is they're bundling things in ways I don't want. What if I like their hardware and want Siri but don't want to use their app store? I don't believe most iOS buyers are buying it for privacy reasons. I bet if this was unbundled and their was an alternate store for iOS that openly used your data but apps cost 10% less a lot of consumers would choose it. You can argue that might not be a wise choice but right now its not a choice they're given.
zmmmmm 5y ago
the problem is you are presenting a false dichotomy: > if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device Who is proposing that? Nobody.
- tracer4201 5y ago
  The post I responded to explicitly wrote about alternative app stores. What’s the main purpose of that other than getting rid of apples regulations?
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Where did they write that they were going to force you (or anyone else) to download stuff from these alternative app stores?
    - tracer4201 5y ago
      You’re missing the argument. Right now I have confidence that anything that can run on my device is signed off and approved by Apple. That gives me a sense of security and privacy. I don’t have to worry about something being approved or not approved. If there’s an app, I rely on Apple to have signed off on it. That’s why I buy iPhone. And all it really comes down to is that Apple has customers who repeatedly give them business each year simply because they like the app ecosystem not being a flea market where anything goes.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        > You’re missing the argument. No, you are. > Right now I have confidence that anything that can run on my device is signed off and approved by Apple. > That gives me a sense of security and privacy. I don’t have to worry about something being approved or not approved. (Except apparently you do, judging from your previous paragraph.) > If there’s an app, I rely on Apple to have signed off on it. That's why people are saying they should allow other app stores beside their own: So they can continue to curate and ban apps in their own one, and still not be (seen as) totally evil monopolists who use their entrenched position to crush potential competition in the app space. Keep installing apps only from the Official Apple App Store — don't even install another one (they'd probably put up lots of scary warnings around that) — and you'll still be just as safe as now. Just like all the other inmates.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

I seek this asinine take everywhere around here. Opening these platforms doesn't kill them, it forces them to compete.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
parasubvert 5y ago
It is not asinine just because you disagree. They already are competing. There is Android, and there is iOS. Apple certainly could be hemmed in on clear areas of conflict like Spotify. Opening the platform is not traditional antitrust because consumers like it this way - it’s more about charity for the competition.
- twitch-chat 5y ago
  By consumers do you mean the loud but very small minority that defend Apple in comment sections of online articles? Because if you ask me, my guess is that the average Apple consumer couldn't care less if the platform is opened up or not.
  - parasubvert 5y ago
    By consumers I mean the people that vote with their wallets by buying iOS devices. If it helps you sleep at night, keep thinking it’s a very small minority. It’s really not.
    - saurik 5y ago
      I'm glad you realized the connection with voting, because it is the same issue in a real sense: no one gets to vote for an open or a closed system, they only get to vote for an iPhone or a Samsung (which is pretty locked down) or some random third-party phone that will probably suck; you are acting as if the people who voted for an iPhone are agreeing with every single decision made about that platform instead of merely wanting it "on the balance". I honestly mostly use Apple devices because I think their touch screens and trackpads are so good as to be "evil magic"... I thereby own a zillion of them and even use them as my personal devices despite also currently suing them over this very anti-competitive App Store issue, and yet my "vote"--and the votes of everyone like me (and I imagine there are many many such people)--are being counted by you as "voting with my wallet" for a closed system. The reality is that I am simply making the best of a shitty situation with buying an iPhone, and the fact that Apple is able to get away with having a closed system because of some other key benefit doesn't mean they should get to do so :/. Hell: at this point, it would be extremely expensive to switch platforms, because Apple and Google have conspired to build a massive wall preventing people from importing purchases of apps from one platform to the other. I would even lose easy access to all of the music and movies I had gotten on iTunes (which is another reason a lot of people get Apple devices: because they are tied into a vertical content monopoly and a lot of the content I want is effectively only available from Apple). ...and like, I hope you realize that the ridiculously large number of people who bought and iPhone and then--despite it being extremely difficult to do so with requiring the usage of often scary software from annoyingly people from random websites--jailbreak it so they can fix this one key flaw they see in this product... a number that is already stupid high--we tended to get like 12% of users at steady state--but which would obviously be extremely high if only it could have been easier to do!
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  I think it's asinine. Fragmentation: If Apple competes well there won't be any because their app store will be the best on merit not at gunpoint. Safety: Don't sideload or install unsigned apps. Keep your phone up to date. This doesn't change much except possibly give you the option to be unsafe. Payment processing: We already see integration with Cash app, Google wallet, Apple pay, Stripe, PayPal, etc. This is not an issue.
  - parasubvert 5y ago
    Gunpoint? This is rich from a bunch of tinkerers and competitors that literally want the people with guns to force Apple to change its platform because competing with them is too hard, and Android sucks so badly as an alternative. Consumers certainly aren’t making these arguments.
tracer4201 5y ago
Yes, you know better than me and my opinion is stupid and foolish. Your post doesn’t really offer than alternative take. All you did is bully me and engage in cyber harassment. When your immediate response is to have an emotional outburst and tell people they’re stupid, it actually shows you lack intelligence.

fredophile 5y ago

Part of the problem I have with them is they're bundling things in ways I don't want. What if I like their hardware and want Siri but don't want to use their app store? I don't believe most iOS buyers are buying it for privacy reasons. I bet if this was unbundled and their was an alternate store for iOS that openly used your data but apps cost 10% less a lot of consumers would choose it. You can argue that might not be a wise choice but right now its not a choice they're given.

zmmmmm 5y ago

the problem is you are presenting a false dichotomy: > if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device Who is proposing that? Nobody.

tracer4201 5y ago
The post I responded to explicitly wrote about alternative app stores. What’s the main purpose of that other than getting rid of apples regulations?
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Where did they write that they were going to force you (or anyone else) to download stuff from these alternative app stores?
  - tracer4201 5y ago
    You’re missing the argument. Right now I have confidence that anything that can run on my device is signed off and approved by Apple. That gives me a sense of security and privacy. I don’t have to worry about something being approved or not approved. If there’s an app, I rely on Apple to have signed off on it. That’s why I buy iPhone. And all it really comes down to is that Apple has customers who repeatedly give them business each year simply because they like the app ecosystem not being a flea market where anything goes.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > You’re missing the argument. No, you are. > Right now I have confidence that anything that can run on my device is signed off and approved by Apple. > That gives me a sense of security and privacy. I don’t have to worry about something being approved or not approved. (Except apparently you do, judging from your previous paragraph.) > If there’s an app, I rely on Apple to have signed off on it. That's why people are saying they should allow other app stores beside their own: So they can continue to curate and ban apps in their own one, and still not be (seen as) totally evil monopolists who use their entrenched position to crush potential competition in the app space. Keep installing apps only from the Official Apple App Store — don't even install another one (they'd probably put up lots of scary warnings around that) — and you'll still be just as safe as now. Just like all the other inmates.