6 ms·

not when accounting for a higher level of crime. In fact, whites are more than half of police victims, while causing way less than half of violent crimes. Ther

not when accounting for a higher level of crime. In fact, whites are more than half of police victims, while causing way less than half of violent crimes. There are 32 million traffic stops each year. In 2019 the police shot 14 unarmed black Americans. I think every death is unforgivable, but let's not pretend that going to work and back as a black person you're putting your life at risk when meeting the police. There is a bias, sure, but it's just that, a bias. I fail to see the evidence for widespread discrimination. Police should do more stops and preventive interventions, look at Baltimore https://homicides.news.baltimoresun.com/?range=2015 https://homicides.news.baltimoresun.com/?range=2015 Look at pre-2015 and post-2015. The homicides increased from 200s to 300s. All because of a police crime and BLM protests in 2015. Now you have 100 extra people each year losing their lives. US needs more police, not less. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltim... I'm deviating, but my point is that police is not a suppressor for the black community, but a helper and an enabler for the honest working people. It can be intimidating and demeaning interacting with the police, but it's still 100x better than interacting with the gangs of Baltimore.

vmception 6y ago
I’m familiar with these talking points and what influences you would have to regurgitate them. That talking point still assumes that the killings of armed people was necessary. It doesn't tell you if they were legal holders, responsible concealed carry holders, the type of weapon or anything. Supporting this frame of thought requires being too much of an apologist for an institution that just has too many options with too little accountability. It is a false dichotomy to simplify it to more police or less, the same goes to people saying defund the police. Accountability is an overarching theme. Overpolicing certain areas is a self fulfilling prophecy that even pollutes your own stats. Black and white people commit arrestable crimes at a similar distribution while the areas black people live in are policed more, or enforced more.
- flavius29663 6y ago
  I don't think police should kill as many people as they do. They are way too trigger happy. I was making an argument that the police is about as shitty for whites and blacks. It's not a matter of racism, but of bad policing. I want police to be better to everyone, not just black people. If we don't address the root of the problem (and racism isn't it), you just end up with other Baltimores. For example just the other day I saw in the news that NYPD is losing officers at twice the rate since 2020.
  - zpeti 6y ago
    And in fact the solution is more money and training to the police. Police don't get trained, especially in high pressure situations, which creates even more mistakes. People upset with the police should be asking for funding the police and more training, not defunding them.
bjourne 6y ago
> not when accounting for a higher level of crime. In fact, whites are more than half of police victims, while causing way less than half of violent crimes. ... Think about it. How does higher levels of crime among black Americans explain why more unarmed black Americans are killed by police? Think about it ...
- esyir 6y ago
  Simple. Assuming that unarmed shooting rate is a proportion of police calls, more crime directly results on more calls and thus more shootings.
  - bjourne 6y ago
    I don't see how you get from point A to point B. More police calls means that more perpetrators get shot, perhaps, but why would it mean that more unarmed people get killed?
ingleswood 6y ago
So if the police escalate a situation and shoot someone who is not a violent criminal, because he is black and therefore more likely (from the police officer's point of view) to be a violent criminal than a white person in the same situation, that's the system working as designed? Do you understand that this is exactly what people who say 'the police are racist' mean when they say it?

vmception 6y ago

I’m familiar with these talking points and what influences you would have to regurgitate them. That talking point still assumes that the killings of armed people was necessary. It doesn't tell you if they were legal holders, responsible concealed carry holders, the type of weapon or anything. Supporting this frame of thought requires being too much of an apologist for an institution that just has too many options with too little accountability. It is a false dichotomy to simplify it to more police or less, the same goes to people saying defund the police. Accountability is an overarching theme. Overpolicing certain areas is a self fulfilling prophecy that even pollutes your own stats. Black and white people commit arrestable crimes at a similar distribution while the areas black people live in are policed more, or enforced more.

flavius29663 6y ago
I don't think police should kill as many people as they do. They are way too trigger happy. I was making an argument that the police is about as shitty for whites and blacks. It's not a matter of racism, but of bad policing. I want police to be better to everyone, not just black people. If we don't address the root of the problem (and racism isn't it), you just end up with other Baltimores. For example just the other day I saw in the news that NYPD is losing officers at twice the rate since 2020.
- zpeti 6y ago
  And in fact the solution is more money and training to the police. Police don't get trained, especially in high pressure situations, which creates even more mistakes. People upset with the police should be asking for funding the police and more training, not defunding them.

bjourne 6y ago

> not when accounting for a higher level of crime. In fact, whites are more than half of police victims, while causing way less than half of violent crimes. ... Think about it. How does higher levels of crime among black Americans explain why more unarmed black Americans are killed by police? Think about it ...

esyir 6y ago
Simple. Assuming that unarmed shooting rate is a proportion of police calls, more crime directly results on more calls and thus more shootings.
- bjourne 6y ago
  I don't see how you get from point A to point B. More police calls means that more perpetrators get shot, perhaps, but why would it mean that more unarmed people get killed?

ingleswood 6y ago

So if the police escalate a situation and shoot someone who is not a violent criminal, because he is black and therefore more likely (from the police officer's point of view) to be a violent criminal than a white person in the same situation, that's the system working as designed? Do you understand that this is exactly what people who say 'the police are racist' mean when they say it?