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This is the same story that HN readers have read hundreds of times over the past couple of years, just with different subjects. Independent developer/small org

This is the same story that HN readers have read hundreds of times over the past couple of years, just with different subjects. Independent developer/small organization gets their app/YouTube channel/Google account shut down overnight because of false positives triggered by their system. It takes weeks and insistence with bots to just get to speak to a human. When you get to speak to a human, they usually respond with template responses and refuse to provide further information. Rinse and repeat the same kafkanian process again and again. In all honesty, what the hell is everyone waiting to get off Google? Gmail accounts, app stores, YouTube, ad networks... Alternatives exist nowadays for all of the products developed by a shapeless and faceless corporation that listens to nobody. I wish a long and successful journey for the Droidscript guys on F-Droid or any alternative store. Time for Google to understand that without the content uploaded by us (users, creators and developers) they are nothing but a useless empty box.

chalst 5y ago
I hope the Droidscript devs do take it to F-Droid, but as it stands, the app faces a few hurdles before the F-Droid team will accept it.
mleonhard 5y ago
Google is 1/2 of the mobile duopoly. No app developer can avoid Google Play Store (for publishing their apps) and Firebase Cloud Messaging (for sending push notifications to their apps).
- sanxiyn 5y ago
  Sure they can. They just chose not to. Do not support Apple. Do not support Google. Support freedom.
  - serial_dev 5y ago
    And if you are a mobile developer, change career?
    - adamors 5y ago
      Yes, also stop being poor as well while you're at it. Stop needing food and shelter all together.
  - anonymousab 5y ago
    The implicit part of the statement was "and make a decent living from it".
- sellyme 5y ago
  I have ~800 applications installed on my phone and there are fewer than a dozen of them that I would not immediately uninstall were they to send me a push notification. I don't buy that "no app developer" can avoid using FCM, the overwhelming majority of applications have no use for them besides spamming users with desperate pleas to return to a screen that can serve advertisements.
Meph504 5y ago
The idea that there are alternatives for anyone but a fringe market without Google is pretty short sited, for example my phone warned me 4 times before it would let me install and use f-droid, each message made it sound like proceeding was compromising my phone. It's a synthetic but effective barrier to prevent the majority of people from setting it up. The mobile environment is as bad as chit, and company stores. This won't change by the will of the people alone. It's hardly fair to suggest other wise.
- 22c 5y ago
  DroidScript users already sound like a fringe market. Seems like the perfect candidate for F-Droid, however I don't know what the F-Droid policy is on showing ads (which sounds like they are not too concerned about keeping in the app, anyway).
  - chalst 5y ago
    Ads are possible but discouraged. They're what F-Droid calls an 'anti-feature', and IIUC Droidscript has a few of them.
da39a3ee 5y ago
Nonsense. Google is very large and you'll find situations like this in any large sample size. There's really not much more to be said; on the whole google works great for most people. Maybe this particular case has a legitimate grievance (in which case it's a false positive but many FPs exist at scale) or maybe they're opening up programmable interfaces in a way that was never going to fly with play store.
judge2020 5y ago
I wonder if it's even a false positive. Imagine some ad fraud agency is using droidscript as a means to click on ads programmatically in a completely different app (which seems possible based on the overview) - how does Google distinguish between that and any other app using the same APIs to fraudulently click ads? What if there's actual malware that uses droidscript as a vehicle to do this to unsuspecting users' phones at night?
- blacklight 5y ago
  Well there's theoretically a very easy way to do it: static analysis of the source code, especially if it's open source like in DroidScript's case :) Does it look like any of the references to the malware domain could come from the app itself? Then it's the app's fault. Otherwise, it's the user's fault. You can also use Python to write ad bots and malware, but that's not a sufficient reason to ban the whole Python language (or any other programming language).
unreal37 5y ago
We don't know that this is a false positive. There's a good chance this app was being used as a vector for hacking, spamming or ad fraud. Not by the developers of this app, but by others who found this app being a useful way around the security of the Google Play store approval process.
selfhoster11 5y ago
> Alternatives exist nowadays for all of the products developed by a shapeless and faceless corporation that listens to nobody. Do they exist? True. Are they "good enough" for the average person? False. To add insult to the injury, they have nowhere near enough reach to build a network effect outside the narrow community of tech geeks or communities that are somehow underserved by the status quo (including communities built around repulsive things, which gives bad reputation to open and uncensored solutions).

chalst 5y ago

I hope the Droidscript devs do take it to F-Droid, but as it stands, the app faces a few hurdles before the F-Droid team will accept it.

mleonhard 5y ago

Google is 1/2 of the mobile duopoly. No app developer can avoid Google Play Store (for publishing their apps) and Firebase Cloud Messaging (for sending push notifications to their apps).

sanxiyn 5y ago
Sure they can. They just chose not to. Do not support Apple. Do not support Google. Support freedom.
- serial_dev 5y ago
  And if you are a mobile developer, change career?
  - adamors 5y ago
    Yes, also stop being poor as well while you're at it. Stop needing food and shelter all together.
- anonymousab 5y ago
  The implicit part of the statement was "and make a decent living from it".
sellyme 5y ago
I have ~800 applications installed on my phone and there are fewer than a dozen of them that I would not immediately uninstall were they to send me a push notification. I don't buy that "no app developer" can avoid using FCM, the overwhelming majority of applications have no use for them besides spamming users with desperate pleas to return to a screen that can serve advertisements.

Meph504 5y ago

The idea that there are alternatives for anyone but a fringe market without Google is pretty short sited, for example my phone warned me 4 times before it would let me install and use f-droid, each message made it sound like proceeding was compromising my phone. It's a synthetic but effective barrier to prevent the majority of people from setting it up. The mobile environment is as bad as chit, and company stores. This won't change by the will of the people alone. It's hardly fair to suggest other wise.

22c 5y ago
DroidScript users already sound like a fringe market. Seems like the perfect candidate for F-Droid, however I don't know what the F-Droid policy is on showing ads (which sounds like they are not too concerned about keeping in the app, anyway).
- chalst 5y ago
  Ads are possible but discouraged. They're what F-Droid calls an 'anti-feature', and IIUC Droidscript has a few of them.

da39a3ee 5y ago

Nonsense. Google is very large and you'll find situations like this in any large sample size. There's really not much more to be said; on the whole google works great for most people. Maybe this particular case has a legitimate grievance (in which case it's a false positive but many FPs exist at scale) or maybe they're opening up programmable interfaces in a way that was never going to fly with play store.

judge2020 5y ago

I wonder if it's even a false positive. Imagine some ad fraud agency is using droidscript as a means to click on ads programmatically in a completely different app (which seems possible based on the overview) - how does Google distinguish between that and any other app using the same APIs to fraudulently click ads? What if there's actual malware that uses droidscript as a vehicle to do this to unsuspecting users' phones at night?

blacklight 5y ago
Well there's theoretically a very easy way to do it: static analysis of the source code, especially if it's open source like in DroidScript's case :) Does it look like any of the references to the malware domain could come from the app itself? Then it's the app's fault. Otherwise, it's the user's fault. You can also use Python to write ad bots and malware, but that's not a sufficient reason to ban the whole Python language (or any other programming language).

unreal37 5y ago

We don't know that this is a false positive. There's a good chance this app was being used as a vector for hacking, spamming or ad fraud. Not by the developers of this app, but by others who found this app being a useful way around the security of the Google Play store approval process.

selfhoster11 5y ago

> Alternatives exist nowadays for all of the products developed by a shapeless and faceless corporation that listens to nobody. Do they exist? True. Are they "good enough" for the average person? False. To add insult to the injury, they have nowhere near enough reach to build a network effect outside the narrow community of tech geeks or communities that are somehow underserved by the status quo (including communities built around repulsive things, which gives bad reputation to open and uncensored solutions).