3 ms·

Doesn't suprise me. My wife is from a rural town in NC, and was told by her high school teachers that she needed to lose her southern accent if she wanted to be

by hn8788 5y ago

Doesn't suprise me. My wife is from a rural town in NC, and was told by her high school teachers that she needed to lose her southern accent if she wanted to be taken seriously in college. When she was working on or master's degree in Maryland, a writing professor commented "you speak and write so well, I never would have guessed you're from the south". That kind of discrimination is very prevalent in academia and media in general, but nobody cares.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Yes, but this illustrates that it's possible to make changes in how you present yourself to overcome potential class biases. This levels the playing field a lot. And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?
- motoxpro 5y ago
  "Don't speak like you, speak like me"
  - intergalplan 5y ago
    "Don't speak like you, or like me some years ago, speak how I learned to speak in order to signal that I'm both perceptive and capable, but also not so rich that I can wisely choose not to signal those traits".
  - Nasrudith 5y ago
    Most people are downright hackable and consistently bugged to that effect regardless of strata. Low key mannerism mimicry (not obvious enough to make it look like you are mocking them) consistently gets you received better along with "proper faking" of desired emotions. For some dumb reason they think "proving they can change their apparent true selves on a whim" means they are more trustworthy instead of less.
- this_user 5y ago
  This is pretty much the idea behind Received Pronounciation in BE.
- hn8788 5y ago
  When my wife was working in the tutoring center during grad school, they were told that telling a minority student to write in "proper english" is racist. So there's clearly a double standard where you're advised that telling a black student to stop using slang and write in "proper english" is racist, but it's fine to tell a white southern student that if they had talked with an accent and used a southern vocabulary, that it's acceptable to assume they're stupid.
  - coding123 5y ago
    And now that "anti-racist" advice leaves this student with less of a chance later on when college is over.
- open0 5y ago
  "And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?" Because accent has nothing to doing with "conducting oneself accordingly". Why is the onus on the victim of discrimination to align with your bogus, outdated way of thinking?
  - bongobingo 5y ago
    > Why is the onus on the victim of discrimination to align with your bogus, outdated way of thinking? Everyone seems to understand what standard American spoken English sound like. If not, we would not have a concept of accents at all. Perhaps one day all accents will be treated equally, but it won’t be this century. You can rage against the machine, but it will only hurt yourself. The world doesn’t change at the pace people seem to want it to.
- BeetleB 5y ago
  > This levels the playing field a lot. If one person has to change an accent to play at the same level as another who did not have to change at all - I wouldn't call it "leveling the playing field".
lrem 5y ago
This is really unsurprising for an European. Where I live, a couple day hike can take you to places where people speak at least 6 distinct languages. It's rather obvious that any attempt at mobility will cause you to be treated as an immigrant.
- curiousgal 5y ago
  > will cause you to be treated as an immigrant. Me, an immigrant: :|
ftio 5y ago
I've had the same experience. I grew up in Staten Island, the son of a couple of Brooklyn Italians. As a kid I had what I now hear as a comically heavy Brooklyn accent. As a middle-middle class kid surrounded by other kids like me, I considered my accent normal. As I got older and was exposed to people from outside our little bubble, I began to notice their reactions to my accent, which were always in jest but affected me just the same. Hearing their jokes and their own accents, I began associate the 'standard' American accent with upperclassness, which I wanted to achieve. So I consciously worked on my accent over a number of years. By the end of high school, my R's were nearly properly rounded. By the end of college, my accent had almost completely gone. Today, it is 100% gone. I speak like a journalist from Ohio, except with more swearing. In many ways, I miss the accent. I feel like an outsider wherever I am, whether it's at work (where I feel like I'm playing a part to fit in) or at a deli, buying a mortadella sandwich, where it feels like returning to a place I've left. But 'fixing' the accent has undoubtedly made it easier for me to advance my career.

by hn8788 5y ago

throwawayboise 5y ago

Yes, but this illustrates that it's possible to make changes in how you present yourself to overcome potential class biases. This levels the playing field a lot. And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?

motoxpro 5y ago
"Don't speak like you, speak like me"
- intergalplan 5y ago
  "Don't speak like you, or like me some years ago, speak how I learned to speak in order to signal that I'm both perceptive and capable, but also not so rich that I can wisely choose not to signal those traits".
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  Most people are downright hackable and consistently bugged to that effect regardless of strata. Low key mannerism mimicry (not obvious enough to make it look like you are mocking them) consistently gets you received better along with "proper faking" of desired emotions. For some dumb reason they think "proving they can change their apparent true selves on a whim" means they are more trustworthy instead of less.
this_user 5y ago
This is pretty much the idea behind Received Pronounciation in BE.
hn8788 5y ago
When my wife was working in the tutoring center during grad school, they were told that telling a minority student to write in "proper english" is racist. So there's clearly a double standard where you're advised that telling a black student to stop using slang and write in "proper english" is racist, but it's fine to tell a white southern student that if they had talked with an accent and used a southern vocabulary, that it's acceptable to assume they're stupid.
- coding123 5y ago
  And now that "anti-racist" advice leaves this student with less of a chance later on when college is over.
open0 5y ago
"And why shouldn't people seeking higher status jobs or education be expected to present and conduct themselves accordingly?" Because accent has nothing to doing with "conducting oneself accordingly". Why is the onus on the victim of discrimination to align with your bogus, outdated way of thinking?
- bongobingo 5y ago
  > Why is the onus on the victim of discrimination to align with your bogus, outdated way of thinking? Everyone seems to understand what standard American spoken English sound like. If not, we would not have a concept of accents at all. Perhaps one day all accents will be treated equally, but it won’t be this century. You can rage against the machine, but it will only hurt yourself. The world doesn’t change at the pace people seem to want it to.
BeetleB 5y ago
> This levels the playing field a lot. If one person has to change an accent to play at the same level as another who did not have to change at all - I wouldn't call it "leveling the playing field".

lrem 5y ago

This is really unsurprising for an European. Where I live, a couple day hike can take you to places where people speak at least 6 distinct languages. It's rather obvious that any attempt at mobility will cause you to be treated as an immigrant.

curiousgal 5y ago
> will cause you to be treated as an immigrant. Me, an immigrant: :|

ftio 5y ago

I've had the same experience. I grew up in Staten Island, the son of a couple of Brooklyn Italians. As a kid I had what I now hear as a comically heavy Brooklyn accent. As a middle-middle class kid surrounded by other kids like me, I considered my accent normal. As I got older and was exposed to people from outside our little bubble, I began to notice their reactions to my accent, which were always in jest but affected me just the same. Hearing their jokes and their own accents, I began associate the 'standard' American accent with upperclassness, which I wanted to achieve. So I consciously worked on my accent over a number of years. By the end of high school, my R's were nearly properly rounded. By the end of college, my accent had almost completely gone. Today, it is 100% gone. I speak like a journalist from Ohio, except with more swearing. In many ways, I miss the accent. I feel like an outsider wherever I am, whether it's at work (where I feel like I'm playing a part to fit in) or at a deli, buying a mortadella sandwich, where it feels like returning to a place I've left. But 'fixing' the accent has undoubtedly made it easier for me to advance my career.