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A tangential (but actually very relevant) question, "reading the room" here, I gather that many folks in tech responding to 'the open letter' referenced here ar

A tangential (but actually very relevant) question, "reading the room" here, I gather that many folks in tech responding to 'the open letter' referenced here are actually either libertarian, conservative, class-based progressive or just progressive but maybe critical of woke-ness/cancel culture. How do you guys deal with coworkers, friends and family who are (for a lack of a better word) very very woke or MAGA for that matter? I mean the obv. answer is just not engage or placate. But I've found doing so is intellectually dishonest and the implied feedback given to the activist (left or right) that their opinion is the prevailing opinion. I try to challenge their opinions logically and on their possible emotional biases; but as politics (along with sex and religion) is the third-rail of American polite conversations, I find it hit-or-miss. Would love to hear everybody else's $0.02! (And if you disagree with me if you a wokist or magaist, I'd love to hear your takes too!)

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hpoe 5y ago
So in my younger days I was way into politics talked about them all the time it was what I was focused on everything was about Fiscal or Monetary policy, the distribution of wealth, esoteric philosophies the whole 9 yards. Eventually I realized no one around me wanted to talk about it. Did some introspection and realized a lot of these issues are more complex than most people believe and most people didn't want to discuss them. So now whenever anyone tries to drag me into politics I respond with the most crazy and incoherent position I can think of and play it off for the laughs. Good ones include 1) Nuke the rainforest 2) Invade Canada 3) Elect the Pope as Hegemon of the world I find people usually laugh and stop talking about politics at that point. If those don't work start saying things like George Bush did 7/11 and Mark Zuckerberg is the Lizard illuminati but there is a secret society that controls the Illuminati as well call then Alluminati. So that's what I do.
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- noname123 5y ago
  More responding to the deleted comment about why not understanding you're downvoted… when your comment shows understanding yourself, changing something for the positive and humor. >Responding to you and the OP. I've found that in life, if you get conflicting strong positive and negative reactions, then you must be expressing or doing something true-to-the-heart! My Sunday school pastor once told me "Jesus care more that you either love or hate him intensely than ever in your walk of faith with him… than you have no feelings for him at all". The worst reception you can hope for in life is a milk-toast approval imho.
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dnissley 5y ago
I don't have much experience with the MAGA folks. I know far fewer of them than the wokes. In my experience they are more likely to live and let live, at least outside of their incessant facebook posts, but that could just be my bubble. Since antiracism has essentially become a religion, I won't bother trying to persuade anyone who is obviously a true believer. You mostly can't convince someone out of their religion, since that's not what got them into the religion. Others are more on the fence, and still have some semblance of sanity, and for them I try to set an example of someone who stridently cares about many of the issues they bring up, while trying to convince them that the woke approach to societal change is not only ineffective, but has done real harm to both actual flesh and blood people and our ability to talk things out and make sense of the world. I try to point them to resources that set a similar example -- not the outright anti-woke stuff, which will put them right off, but things like these that tread a middle path with elements that disrupt their tidy narrative of us vs them: https://www.persuasion.community/p/the-painful-path-to-unity https://www.persuasion.community/p/the-painful-path-to-unity https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/woke-vs-anti-woke-asexual-bisexual https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/woke-vs-anti-woke-asex... https://youtu.be/pHGt733yw3g https://youtu.be/pHGt733yw3g
- locopati 5y ago
  Yes, I'm quite sure that people who would call themselves MAGA folks and voted for 45 are "more likely to live and let live" when they vote for a party who is actively working to take rights away from people (voting rights, rights to health care, rights to equal treatment under the law, etc).
- hokumguru 5y ago
  Wonderful article. Thank you
apple4ever 5y ago
For either side (or really with anybody I don't want to talk about politics in general to), I just let them say what they want, but don't really acknowledge what they say other than "ah ok". I tend to be a non-confrontationalist. There is no point in debating with some people - either because its not the right situation, I don't want to offend them (work/friends), or its clear they are hardliners that won't have a civil debate.

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hpoe 5y ago

So in my younger days I was way into politics talked about them all the time it was what I was focused on everything was about Fiscal or Monetary policy, the distribution of wealth, esoteric philosophies the whole 9 yards. Eventually I realized no one around me wanted to talk about it. Did some introspection and realized a lot of these issues are more complex than most people believe and most people didn't want to discuss them. So now whenever anyone tries to drag me into politics I respond with the most crazy and incoherent position I can think of and play it off for the laughs. Good ones include 1) Nuke the rainforest 2) Invade Canada 3) Elect the Pope as Hegemon of the world I find people usually laugh and stop talking about politics at that point. If those don't work start saying things like George Bush did 7/11 and Mark Zuckerberg is the Lizard illuminati but there is a secret society that controls the Illuminati as well call then Alluminati. So that's what I do.

deleted 5y ago
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[deleted]
noname123 5y ago
More responding to the deleted comment about why not understanding you're downvoted… when your comment shows understanding yourself, changing something for the positive and humor. >Responding to you and the OP. I've found that in life, if you get conflicting strong positive and negative reactions, then you must be expressing or doing something true-to-the-heart! My Sunday school pastor once told me "Jesus care more that you either love or hate him intensely than ever in your walk of faith with him… than you have no feelings for him at all". The worst reception you can hope for in life is a milk-toast approval imho.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dnissley 5y ago

I don't have much experience with the MAGA folks. I know far fewer of them than the wokes. In my experience they are more likely to live and let live, at least outside of their incessant facebook posts, but that could just be my bubble. Since antiracism has essentially become a religion, I won't bother trying to persuade anyone who is obviously a true believer. You mostly can't convince someone out of their religion, since that's not what got them into the religion. Others are more on the fence, and still have some semblance of sanity, and for them I try to set an example of someone who stridently cares about many of the issues they bring up, while trying to convince them that the woke approach to societal change is not only ineffective, but has done real harm to both actual flesh and blood people and our ability to talk things out and make sense of the world. I try to point them to resources that set a similar example -- not the outright anti-woke stuff, which will put them right off, but things like these that tread a middle path with elements that disrupt their tidy narrative of us vs them: https://www.persuasion.community/p/the-painful-path-to-unity https://www.persuasion.community/p/the-painful-path-to-unity https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/woke-vs-anti-woke-asexual-bisexual https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/woke-vs-anti-woke-asex... https://youtu.be/pHGt733yw3g https://youtu.be/pHGt733yw3g

locopati 5y ago
Yes, I'm quite sure that people who would call themselves MAGA folks and voted for 45 are "more likely to live and let live" when they vote for a party who is actively working to take rights away from people (voting rights, rights to health care, rights to equal treatment under the law, etc).
hokumguru 5y ago
Wonderful article. Thank you

apple4ever 5y ago

For either side (or really with anybody I don't want to talk about politics in general to), I just let them say what they want, but don't really acknowledge what they say other than "ah ok". I tend to be a non-confrontationalist. There is no point in debating with some people - either because its not the right situation, I don't want to offend them (work/friends), or its clear they are hardliners that won't have a civil debate.