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The goals distinguishing from other init systems seem to be: - musl support - guaranteed bootability It's not easy to extract this from the post, since it's

The goals distinguishing from other init systems seem to be: - musl support - guaranteed bootability It's not easy to extract this from the post, since it's hidden between value statements like "flexible", "small", "fast", "unpredictable", which aren't defined anywhere, nor supported with external statements. Since those aren't defined, it's also not clear why the author didn't decide to contribute support for the two defined criteria to systemd.

viraptor 6y ago
> it's also not clear why the author didn't decide to contribute support for the two defined criteria to systemd. Because the first one means working against two projects - one which wants to keep its surface lean and one which says "glibc is de-facto standard, deal with it". https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/10130#issuecomment-423893926 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/10130#issuecomment...
- zxzax 6y ago
  That comment suggests that patches will be accepted to support musl, and it links to a merged PR where the commit message is quite literally "fix compile errors on musl"
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Some patches yes, but it also says that systemd will not carry shims for the missing glibc APIs.
    - zxzax 6y ago
      Why would they? That wouldn't really help anybody, it would make the most sense to put those shims in a separate library, so any glibc consumer can use them. I'd expect the shim would also be useful to getting glibc consumers running on BSD and other libcs too.
      - viraptor 6y ago
        It really depends what your expectations about the environment are. Systemd is a large user of very specific functionality that they have good reasons not to replace with something else. Since it keeps running into those issues, it may be more beneficial for wider community if systemd included the missing shims conditionally. They'd be able to put it in CI and treat musl as first class platform so people don't have to report back with similar issues after the release. Not exactly like, but similar to how openbsd has openssh and everyone else has the official openssh-portable. Their stance is not wrong, but it's probably not what many people would like to see.
    - zxzax 6y ago
      Follow up: It looks like musl has been willing to carry those shims https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2019/08/08/4 https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2019/08/08/4

viraptor 6y ago

> it's also not clear why the author didn't decide to contribute support for the two defined criteria to systemd. Because the first one means working against two projects - one which wants to keep its surface lean and one which says "glibc is de-facto standard, deal with it". https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/10130#issuecomment-423893926 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/10130#issuecomment...

zxzax 6y ago
That comment suggests that patches will be accepted to support musl, and it links to a merged PR where the commit message is quite literally "fix compile errors on musl"
- viraptor 6y ago
  Some patches yes, but it also says that systemd will not carry shims for the missing glibc APIs.
  - zxzax 6y ago
    Why would they? That wouldn't really help anybody, it would make the most sense to put those shims in a separate library, so any glibc consumer can use them. I'd expect the shim would also be useful to getting glibc consumers running on BSD and other libcs too.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      It really depends what your expectations about the environment are. Systemd is a large user of very specific functionality that they have good reasons not to replace with something else. Since it keeps running into those issues, it may be more beneficial for wider community if systemd included the missing shims conditionally. They'd be able to put it in CI and treat musl as first class platform so people don't have to report back with similar issues after the release. Not exactly like, but similar to how openbsd has openssh and everyone else has the official openssh-portable. Their stance is not wrong, but it's probably not what many people would like to see.
  - zxzax 6y ago
    Follow up: It looks like musl has been willing to carry those shims https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2019/08/08/4 https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2019/08/08/4