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What's amazing is that this kind of article is purely due to societal labeling. In India you would never have this kind of article because the students with th

What's amazing is that this kind of article is purely due to societal labeling. In India you would never have this kind of article because the students with the highest grades are revered by everyone else while the jocks are looked down as guys who will , in the future, only be able to get menial jobs! I'm always surprised at how much pain and suffering a "geek" has to go through in the US whereas he would be the center of attention in India. Same situation but with different labeling applied ... Amazing.

marshray 15y ago
Maybe it's the mindset of the kinds of authors who write about such things, but it's interesting that this author seems to conflate kids with computer skills and homosexuals.
csomar 15y ago
In India you would never have this kind of article because the students with the highest grades There is something wrong here. Someone with high grades is not necessarily a geek. A geek will probably rank well and get good grades. I actually think, geeks will have not so good grades. That's because they are busy doing other things: like programming, or free-thinking. In Tunisia, high school encourage stupidity. I can't imply the same for India, but I'm almost sure that it is the same case. With little intelligence, lot of hard (repetitive) work and sometimes private courses, you can get incredibly good results. If someone has the highest grades in a high school that encourages stupidity, he is probably not a geek. There are more than Maths and Physics in high school. I doubt geeks will be interested in subjects that focus on dumb-memorization of a few sentences. This will decrease their rank. I would like that you comment more about this subject, because I have been there (High School) and lived it.
- shadowfox 15y ago
  > In Tunisia, high school encourage stupidity Can you elaborate on this? In what way does these high schools encourage stupidity. (I am also curious as to how these places encourage stupidity as opposed to, say, not encouraging creativity or something like that)
  - csomar 15y ago
    Maths is supposed a field where students think and solve problems. What happens, is that with the current educational system and the student only-interest is to get a good grade, they don't solve problems. Instead, they work on memorizing most of them. Teachers follows the same direction, by giving exams that they have covered or are available in some series. This encourage stupidity. Students don't think in problems. They remember them. That's why, students rank bad in the national exam (BAC), even though you'll find it 10 easier than what they get in high schools. Most of the students grades decrease in BAC (by 5-10%). Mine increased by around 20%. No intelligence involved from my part, it was a lot easier and simpler.
- true_religion 15y ago
  I disagree. When it comes to highschools in the United States, things are so viciously easy outside of the AP/IB track that you can sleep through class and still get a high B or low A. It's anecdotal but its confirmed by foreign students that I know who came from abroad to begin schooling in the US.
  - csomar 15y ago
    I think we need a consensus about measuring and defining hardness in the first place.
  - keeptrying 15y ago
    Yeah US/UK school curriculum is a cake walk compared to Indian/Chinese school curriculum. I was born in India and lived in the UK for 6 years. My dad used to make me study the Indian curriculum after I got home. I hated studying the Indian one. School however was like a breeze though ... Didnt have to even think :) ... They even made me go to a senior class for math because I found the subject matter so easy. And it wasnt only math that I did well at. I was the top of the class in english as well. Anyway seriously, you cant compare the Indian/Chinese curriculum to the US one.
- keeptrying 15y ago
  First lets define nerds. I think there are basically 2 different sub categories but I think both still qualify as "nerds": 1. Students who care a lot about their academic achievements in school. 2. Students who fall in love with a subject: science, programming etc and spend time outside of school with these subjects. (May not have good grades) In India, both these types would be thought of as "ahead of the pack". In both cases, in the US, these guys would be looked down upon in High School - "nerds". -- You also talk about "memorisation". Well I've been around the top "memorisers" there are in India - ie the topmost ranking student of an education system which is solely memorisation based (the Tamil Nadu State Board). And one thing you wont understand until you meet these guys is that they are very very very hardworking. Memorisation is HARD WORK. Imagine having to memorise a whole book. I've seen these guys do well in college too. Ie, they dont memorize everything.
jkuria 15y ago
I also grew up in the third world and can attest to what you are saying. Kids who do well in school have status. They are generally not cool but they have status--no one persecutes them. It therefore surprises me to read an article like this one: http://www.law.wisc.edu/blogs/wisblawg/2009/10/judge_olly_neal_shares_how_a_s.html http://www.law.wisc.edu/blogs/wisblawg/2009/10/judge_olly_ne... Thank god I didn't go to high school in the states! If I had gone to high school in the states and grown up 'african american' (I'm african) then I'd probably have had to diminish myself to fit in and not truly pursue the things I was interested in. Now the kids who are good at sports, outgoing and confident (the cool kids) and who get the girls also have status, but if they are poor academically they also tend to have a chip on their shoulder. Here is one such kid blogging about it years later... http://ngethustar.blogspot.com/2006/06/mangu-high-school.html http://ngethustar.blogspot.com/2006/06/mangu-high-school.htm...
- loboman 15y ago
  I'm from Argentina, and high school is (or used to be) a nightmare for nerds here. At least it was for me.

marshray 15y ago

Maybe it's the mindset of the kinds of authors who write about such things, but it's interesting that this author seems to conflate kids with computer skills and homosexuals.

csomar 15y ago

In India you would never have this kind of article because the students with the highest grades There is something wrong here. Someone with high grades is not necessarily a geek. A geek will probably rank well and get good grades. I actually think, geeks will have not so good grades. That's because they are busy doing other things: like programming, or free-thinking. In Tunisia, high school encourage stupidity. I can't imply the same for India, but I'm almost sure that it is the same case. With little intelligence, lot of hard (repetitive) work and sometimes private courses, you can get incredibly good results. If someone has the highest grades in a high school that encourages stupidity, he is probably not a geek. There are more than Maths and Physics in high school. I doubt geeks will be interested in subjects that focus on dumb-memorization of a few sentences. This will decrease their rank. I would like that you comment more about this subject, because I have been there (High School) and lived it.

shadowfox 15y ago
> In Tunisia, high school encourage stupidity Can you elaborate on this? In what way does these high schools encourage stupidity. (I am also curious as to how these places encourage stupidity as opposed to, say, not encouraging creativity or something like that)
- csomar 15y ago
  Maths is supposed a field where students think and solve problems. What happens, is that with the current educational system and the student only-interest is to get a good grade, they don't solve problems. Instead, they work on memorizing most of them. Teachers follows the same direction, by giving exams that they have covered or are available in some series. This encourage stupidity. Students don't think in problems. They remember them. That's why, students rank bad in the national exam (BAC), even though you'll find it 10 easier than what they get in high schools. Most of the students grades decrease in BAC (by 5-10%). Mine increased by around 20%. No intelligence involved from my part, it was a lot easier and simpler.
true_religion 15y ago
I disagree. When it comes to highschools in the United States, things are so viciously easy outside of the AP/IB track that you can sleep through class and still get a high B or low A. It's anecdotal but its confirmed by foreign students that I know who came from abroad to begin schooling in the US.
- csomar 15y ago
  I think we need a consensus about measuring and defining hardness in the first place.
- keeptrying 15y ago
  Yeah US/UK school curriculum is a cake walk compared to Indian/Chinese school curriculum. I was born in India and lived in the UK for 6 years. My dad used to make me study the Indian curriculum after I got home. I hated studying the Indian one. School however was like a breeze though ... Didnt have to even think :) ... They even made me go to a senior class for math because I found the subject matter so easy. And it wasnt only math that I did well at. I was the top of the class in english as well. Anyway seriously, you cant compare the Indian/Chinese curriculum to the US one.
keeptrying 15y ago
First lets define nerds. I think there are basically 2 different sub categories but I think both still qualify as "nerds": 1. Students who care a lot about their academic achievements in school. 2. Students who fall in love with a subject: science, programming etc and spend time outside of school with these subjects. (May not have good grades) In India, both these types would be thought of as "ahead of the pack". In both cases, in the US, these guys would be looked down upon in High School - "nerds". -- You also talk about "memorisation". Well I've been around the top "memorisers" there are in India - ie the topmost ranking student of an education system which is solely memorisation based (the Tamil Nadu State Board). And one thing you wont understand until you meet these guys is that they are very very very hardworking. Memorisation is HARD WORK. Imagine having to memorise a whole book. I've seen these guys do well in college too. Ie, they dont memorize everything.

jkuria 15y ago

I also grew up in the third world and can attest to what you are saying. Kids who do well in school have status. They are generally not cool but they have status--no one persecutes them. It therefore surprises me to read an article like this one: http://www.law.wisc.edu/blogs/wisblawg/2009/10/judge_olly_neal_shares_how_a_s.html http://www.law.wisc.edu/blogs/wisblawg/2009/10/judge_olly_ne... Thank god I didn't go to high school in the states! If I had gone to high school in the states and grown up 'african american' (I'm african) then I'd probably have had to diminish myself to fit in and not truly pursue the things I was interested in. Now the kids who are good at sports, outgoing and confident (the cool kids) and who get the girls also have status, but if they are poor academically they also tend to have a chip on their shoulder. Here is one such kid blogging about it years later... http://ngethustar.blogspot.com/2006/06/mangu-high-school.html http://ngethustar.blogspot.com/2006/06/mangu-high-school.htm...

loboman 15y ago
I'm from Argentina, and high school is (or used to be) a nightmare for nerds here. At least it was for me.