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I'm sure that there are many alternatives that would be healthier than alcohol for any given individual, be it exercise, social and economic stability, CBT, vac

I'm sure that there are many alternatives that would be healthier than alcohol for any given individual, be it exercise, social and economic stability, CBT, vacation, improved diet, better sleep, etc. However, in societies where alcohol consumption is an engrained feature of ordinary life and social interactions, is it even feasible to encourage every person to implement whichever of the myriad of alternatives would be more effective for them? I would argue that, at the public health level, focusing on a naïve "zero level" of alcohol in favour of the "better alternatives" would at best be ineffective, not the least because the better alternatives can be promoted regardless of alcohol consumption. At worst they could even be harmful, if the encouraged abstinence were to discourage the social events associated with non-excessive alcohol consumption. On an individual level yes indeed, having 0 beers a week may be provably healthier than having 10 beers a week, all else being equal. And that's the crucial point—all else being equal. Those beers are not drunk in isolation or without context. The individual may enjoy trying craft beer with their partner at dinner, or they may meet some friends at the pub and enjoy some slightly disinhibited laughs together. Could this person enjoy trying herbal teas with their partner? Perhaps. Could their friends meet up for a game of volleyball instead? Maybe. Is it realistic to expect similar alternatives to alcohol in the overall population? Very probably not.

FredPret 6y ago
I worried about this a lot before I quit drinking. Now I can tell you that my social life is exactly the same as before - but I’m drinking water or near-beer or something fizzy instead. I don’t care, my friends don’t care, and if they did, they wouldn’t count as friends anyway. Now if you’re a frat member, maybe it’s different.
- Ntrails 6y ago
  My other half never thought she would be able to date me, because she wanted someone to share a bottle of wine with. Turns out, she can have a lovely time drinking wine and having a designated driver to get her home :) But I will say that being tee total has impacted my experience of social gatherings based around drinking. Sure, with good friends it couldn't matter less. But with work folks, acquaintances etc? Yeah, it matters
  - FredPret 6y ago
    Another thing to keep in mind is that non-alcoholic drinks as a sector are growing rapidly. We might see a sea change here within a generation, like we saw with smoking, where it simply isn’t cool anymore. For anyone interested, I followed Allen Carr's Easy Way to Control Alcohol. It was a totally painless process for me
aksss 6y ago
As an individual body, there is no benefit that alcohol provides your system that cannot be achieved through healthier means (that I'm aware of - tell me if I'm wrong). I'm not saying alcohol isn't effective, I'm saying that in all cases there are healthier ways (wiser ways) to achieve the positive effects. I'm not saying alcohol isn't efficient, I'm saying the work required to implement the healthier methods for the same effects is worth the extra effort. At the public health level, I don't think there's any harm in condemning alcohol. I'm not saying prohibition, and I enjoy a good tequila or whiskey or wine or beer - it's great stuff. But the least of our members of society - those with the worst problems - are often making their lives worse with alcohol not better. I see no issue in messaging that repeatedly. Responsible and irresponsible people will always drink, but messaging the harm it causes more often could not hurt American society. I don't think that's naive at all. You may be confusing messaging "zero level" with a legal prohibition, and I don't think that's a valid equivalency. Exercise is good for you, abstaining from alcohol is good for you too. Just like abstaining from fast food. It doesn't mean everyone will comply, nor should you expect that. But messaging that this stuff is not healthy seems wise to me. Instead you see a steady drip of "a drink a day may be good for your heart" crap, that is assuredly endorsed and promoted by the beverage industry, and not with the health of society in mind.
- watwut 6y ago
  That is not standard we apply ... to pretty much anything else people consume. No single food or drink will make you live longer. This is all just an attempt to create moral panic with pretension it is all concern about health. So people are free to point out that.
  - aksss 6y ago
    I'm not sure why you're morally panicked. Alcohol is a toxin. Drink it and have fun. Nobody's telling you what to do with your life by informing you that alcohol and fast food don't do you any good from a physical health standpoint and are poor choices for mental health as well. You can rationalize away the harm, and probably quite effectively for you alone - it's not my business.

FredPret 6y ago

I worried about this a lot before I quit drinking. Now I can tell you that my social life is exactly the same as before - but I’m drinking water or near-beer or something fizzy instead. I don’t care, my friends don’t care, and if they did, they wouldn’t count as friends anyway. Now if you’re a frat member, maybe it’s different.

Ntrails 6y ago
My other half never thought she would be able to date me, because she wanted someone to share a bottle of wine with. Turns out, she can have a lovely time drinking wine and having a designated driver to get her home :) But I will say that being tee total has impacted my experience of social gatherings based around drinking. Sure, with good friends it couldn't matter less. But with work folks, acquaintances etc? Yeah, it matters
- FredPret 6y ago
  Another thing to keep in mind is that non-alcoholic drinks as a sector are growing rapidly. We might see a sea change here within a generation, like we saw with smoking, where it simply isn’t cool anymore. For anyone interested, I followed Allen Carr's Easy Way to Control Alcohol. It was a totally painless process for me

aksss 6y ago

As an individual body, there is no benefit that alcohol provides your system that cannot be achieved through healthier means (that I'm aware of - tell me if I'm wrong). I'm not saying alcohol isn't effective, I'm saying that in all cases there are healthier ways (wiser ways) to achieve the positive effects. I'm not saying alcohol isn't efficient, I'm saying the work required to implement the healthier methods for the same effects is worth the extra effort. At the public health level, I don't think there's any harm in condemning alcohol. I'm not saying prohibition, and I enjoy a good tequila or whiskey or wine or beer - it's great stuff. But the least of our members of society - those with the worst problems - are often making their lives worse with alcohol not better. I see no issue in messaging that repeatedly. Responsible and irresponsible people will always drink, but messaging the harm it causes more often could not hurt American society. I don't think that's naive at all. You may be confusing messaging "zero level" with a legal prohibition, and I don't think that's a valid equivalency. Exercise is good for you, abstaining from alcohol is good for you too. Just like abstaining from fast food. It doesn't mean everyone will comply, nor should you expect that. But messaging that this stuff is not healthy seems wise to me. Instead you see a steady drip of "a drink a day may be good for your heart" crap, that is assuredly endorsed and promoted by the beverage industry, and not with the health of society in mind.

watwut 6y ago
That is not standard we apply ... to pretty much anything else people consume. No single food or drink will make you live longer. This is all just an attempt to create moral panic with pretension it is all concern about health. So people are free to point out that.
- aksss 6y ago
  I'm not sure why you're morally panicked. Alcohol is a toxin. Drink it and have fun. Nobody's telling you what to do with your life by informing you that alcohol and fast food don't do you any good from a physical health standpoint and are poor choices for mental health as well. You can rationalize away the harm, and probably quite effectively for you alone - it's not my business.