3 ms·

UML died because people just want to open up draw.io and put down a few boxes and arrows, and they don't want the mental overhead of having to use a formal lang

UML died because people just want to open up draw.io and put down a few boxes and arrows, and they don't want the mental overhead of having to use a formal language for doing this.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
You start with an informal idea of what the program will do and how it will work, and you proceed from there to something formal (at a minimum, by the time you get to the code). Along the way, diagrams are useful for refining your own thinking, and for communicating with others. So I think what you're saying is that people want those diagrams to be on the informal side of the formal/informal divide, and UML tried to put them on the formal side. And that didn't work, because on the informal side, a diagram can communicate the general idea quickly. But on the formal side, diagrams are very tedious to produce in the detail required for a formal design, and even more tedious to edit to keep up to date as the design evolves. UML died because diagrams work better for informal rather than formal communication. I think that explanation fits rather well.
- kragen 6y ago
  UML died because diagrams work better for informal rather than formal communication. I think that explanation fits rather well. That would be a great surprise indeed to mechanical engineers, chemical process plant engineers, electricians, analog circuit designers, machinists, architects, PureData livecoders in nightclubs, and many other groups of people. UML's problem wasn't that it was visual. UML's problem is that it was a fraud: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956298
sumtechguy 6y ago
Then add in 'agile'. Which for some people seem to translate into just throw some code down and work out the details later. Oh then keep your docs up to date (many devs detest doc work). Then add in the cost for a RR seat (wasnt it like 20k per dev at one point?). Then add in the agile is a strict set of rules people (5 stages before story creation) while you were getting your UML just right for your story we finished the epic and the user signed off already. A few boxes on a whiteboard and some lines usually is more than sufficient for many things.

UML died because people just want to open up draw.io and put down a few boxes and arrows, and they don't want the mental overhead of having to use a formal language for doing this.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

You start with an informal idea of what the program will do and how it will work, and you proceed from there to something formal (at a minimum, by the time you get to the code). Along the way, diagrams are useful for refining your own thinking, and for communicating with others. So I think what you're saying is that people want those diagrams to be on the informal side of the formal/informal divide, and UML tried to put them on the formal side. And that didn't work, because on the informal side, a diagram can communicate the general idea quickly. But on the formal side, diagrams are very tedious to produce in the detail required for a formal design, and even more tedious to edit to keep up to date as the design evolves. UML died because diagrams work better for informal rather than formal communication. I think that explanation fits rather well.

kragen 6y ago
UML died because diagrams work better for informal rather than formal communication. I think that explanation fits rather well. That would be a great surprise indeed to mechanical engineers, chemical process plant engineers, electricians, analog circuit designers, machinists, architects, PureData livecoders in nightclubs, and many other groups of people. UML's problem wasn't that it was visual. UML's problem is that it was a fraud: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956298

sumtechguy 6y ago

Then add in 'agile'. Which for some people seem to translate into just throw some code down and work out the details later. Oh then keep your docs up to date (many devs detest doc work). Then add in the cost for a RR seat (wasnt it like 20k per dev at one point?). Then add in the agile is a strict set of rules people (5 stages before story creation) while you were getting your UML just right for your story we finished the epic and the user signed off already. A few boxes on a whiteboard and some lines usually is more than sufficient for many things.