4 ms·

People, including me, are making the "tolerance is not approval" connection because we look at society and see a lot of tolerance and then we see lots of people

by slibhb 6y ago

People, including me, are making the "tolerance is not approval" connection because we look at society and see a lot of tolerance and then we see lots of people who conflate tolerance with approval, sometimes explicitly, e.g. if someone says "I am very tolerant, I support gay marriage," they are using the word "tolerant" wrong. Your argument is basically "my relationship is political because I am gay". I disagree. I think that reasonable people understand that your marriage is not political. Acquiring your right to marry was political, but exercising that right is not. If someone doesn't understand this and interprets you referencing your husband as some political statement, they are wrong, and I expect most HR departments would realize that if push came to shove.

drewbug01 6y ago
> Your argument is basically "my relationship is political because I am gay". I disagree. I think that reasonable people understand that your marriage is not political. My argument is "my relationship is political because I am gay" and part of why I make that argument is because people have told me they think it's political. So - you disagree. About what, precisely? If you don't want to believe me that this has happened to me, and happened to others, that's something only you can decide and control. But it would be nice if you could at least assume I'm telling you the truth about my own life and experiences, and engage in debate accordingly. Otherwise just be up front about the fact that you don't think I'm telling the truth about this, or that you think I'm wildly mistaken.
- slibhb 6y ago
  My point is not what has or hasn't happened to you. My point is that, if someone tells you your marriage is political, they are wrong. They don't know what politics is and the law is on your side. I don't see what else you can really ask for (besides approval).
  - drewbug01 6y ago
    Who cares if they’re actually right or wrong? The point of all of this is that if they want, under this Basecamp policy, they could cry to their management about “drewbug01 is being political and waving around his sexuality in my face and I’d like a politics-free workspace”. And if that manager happens to also be jerk? Or even just not like me very much and want cover to get rid of me? They’ve got it. It has nothing to do with whether or not you and I think it’s unpolitical. Enough people believe that it is so it is. This is the part that’s such a huge problem.

by slibhb 6y ago

drewbug01 6y ago

> Your argument is basically "my relationship is political because I am gay". I disagree. I think that reasonable people understand that your marriage is not political. My argument is "my relationship is political because I am gay" and part of why I make that argument is because people have told me they think it's political. So - you disagree. About what, precisely? If you don't want to believe me that this has happened to me, and happened to others, that's something only you can decide and control. But it would be nice if you could at least assume I'm telling you the truth about my own life and experiences, and engage in debate accordingly. Otherwise just be up front about the fact that you don't think I'm telling the truth about this, or that you think I'm wildly mistaken.

slibhb 6y ago
My point is not what has or hasn't happened to you. My point is that, if someone tells you your marriage is political, they are wrong. They don't know what politics is and the law is on your side. I don't see what else you can really ask for (besides approval).
- drewbug01 6y ago
  Who cares if they’re actually right or wrong? The point of all of this is that if they want, under this Basecamp policy, they could cry to their management about “drewbug01 is being political and waving around his sexuality in my face and I’d like a politics-free workspace”. And if that manager happens to also be jerk? Or even just not like me very much and want cover to get rid of me? They’ve got it. It has nothing to do with whether or not you and I think it’s unpolitical. Enough people believe that it is so it is. This is the part that’s such a huge problem.