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My understanding is that it is not atypical for SARS though? I thought that was the main reason Asia was big on masks, which should have suggested that we ought

My understanding is that it is not atypical for SARS though? I thought that was the main reason Asia was big on masks, which should have suggested that we ought to at least consider masks. My guess is it was some combination of uncertainty about effectiveness in the general public and wanting masks to be available for healthcare workers, so they ran with the messaging they did. IMO if they didn't want to make a statement that could lead to hoarding in the early days they should have just said nothing about masks until production was ramped up. Masks are such a minimally invasive preventative measure that given uncertainty about their effectiveness you would normally err on the side of encouraging.

mcguire 6y ago
The other downside of such statements is excessive belief: "wearing medical-grade masks correctly might help" is understood as "wearing anything over your face will provide perfect protection".
- caddemon 6y ago
  Can you point to any countries that encouraged mask use where that ended up being the general sentiment? It's not like encouraging mask use means restrictions on shopping, dining, etc. wouldn't also exist. Besides, you could make the same argument for something like wearing a helmet while bike riding. I'm sure there are situations where false peace of mind is a problem, but I don't see why we should assume mask wearing would be one of them. At the time they were obviously operating with limited information, but it's crazy to me that people continue to defend the early pandemic mask messaging. They screwed up, it happens, but it should be acknowledged and there should be a post mortem.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Most "N95" masks that are generally available (i.e. those from Home Depot) have the rubber flapper valves for exhalation. Think they do anything much useful medically? How many people have you seen wearing clear plastic face shields or bandannas tied around their face like Ol' West banditos, with the bottom open? How about with the mask pulled down below their nose? (Disclaimer: I did that the other day; I was at the optometrist and my breath was fogging up the lens thingy.) The early pandemic mask messaging was wrong. A postmortem might very well find that they made the best recommendations they could based on what they knew.[1] Unless you've already decided that they screwed up because they're lying idiots. [1] See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138301: "(I note that there was a meeting of epidemiologists in March, 2020, where famously, no one wore masks. How far are you willing to to go to lie?)"
    - caddemon 5y ago
      Based on what they knew, or what they should have known? I never said they were idiots, but Asian countries already had data on mask use during SARS. I also don't think they were lying about what they thought at the time, moreso they were misleading about their level of uncertainty on the topic. If they really did think masks were useless with high probability then I think they missed some preexisting literature.

mcguire 6y ago

The other downside of such statements is excessive belief: "wearing medical-grade masks correctly might help" is understood as "wearing anything over your face will provide perfect protection".

caddemon 6y ago
Can you point to any countries that encouraged mask use where that ended up being the general sentiment? It's not like encouraging mask use means restrictions on shopping, dining, etc. wouldn't also exist. Besides, you could make the same argument for something like wearing a helmet while bike riding. I'm sure there are situations where false peace of mind is a problem, but I don't see why we should assume mask wearing would be one of them. At the time they were obviously operating with limited information, but it's crazy to me that people continue to defend the early pandemic mask messaging. They screwed up, it happens, but it should be acknowledged and there should be a post mortem.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Most "N95" masks that are generally available (i.e. those from Home Depot) have the rubber flapper valves for exhalation. Think they do anything much useful medically? How many people have you seen wearing clear plastic face shields or bandannas tied around their face like Ol' West banditos, with the bottom open? How about with the mask pulled down below their nose? (Disclaimer: I did that the other day; I was at the optometrist and my breath was fogging up the lens thingy.) The early pandemic mask messaging was wrong. A postmortem might very well find that they made the best recommendations they could based on what they knew.[1] Unless you've already decided that they screwed up because they're lying idiots. [1] See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138301: "(I note that there was a meeting of epidemiologists in March, 2020, where famously, no one wore masks. How far are you willing to to go to lie?)"
  - caddemon 5y ago
    Based on what they knew, or what they should have known? I never said they were idiots, but Asian countries already had data on mask use during SARS. I also don't think they were lying about what they thought at the time, moreso they were misleading about their level of uncertainty on the topic. If they really did think masks were useless with high probability then I think they missed some preexisting literature.