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>EU is a few decades old failed experiment Why do people say this with such conviction?

by ginko 6y ago

shimonabi 6y ago
Because the Euro currency is a nuclear bomb, designed to explode sooner or later and take both Germany and Italy down with it. It is only a matter of time. Bernard Connolly has predicted it all in the 90's.
vagrantJin 6y ago
Probably a result of the widespread panic and pessimism that pervades European life. No idea why though. Seems like the future is a scary idea to Europe and sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop. French President Macron laments this in his book/biography "Last President of Europe"
kungito 6y ago
Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. Eurosceptics often focus on one small part of being a part of EU and hate the whole idea for it. While EU gave many good things, opening up markets made many people lose jobs because they weren't prepared or they got crushed by the economies of scale of bigger companies which they were protected from before. On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead.
- sofixa 6y ago
  > Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. The EU changes nothing regarding that, on the contrary, by being European as well as of X nationality, it helps overcome traditional national rivalries. One of the main points in recent Catalonian and Scottish independence movements has been that due to the EU, the economic and legal impact will be minimal. > On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead And they don't realise that the improvements in neighbouring countries concern them as well, by adding extra markets and expanding them ( a better developed Romania can buy more German-made washing machines, etc.). The cheap labor that moves is a positive contribution. Then there's the incalculable positive from EU sponsored and made possible programmes of cultural and educational exchanges. The worst thing about the EU is its lacking marketing. Most of the bureaucratic problems with it aren't really that far from the same thing in countries.
mrweasel 6y ago
Because the EU is terrible at highlighting what benefits it actually provides to the people in the union. The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe. But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. Free trade and movement across European borders is product of the EU, and it sucks to have it taken away from you.
- jollybean 6y ago
  "The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe." Norway and Switzerland have some words for you. More likely just the EEC was the 'greatest thing' and the EU, essentially the political version, is possibly a negative drag. There's not much indication that the trade-plus-politics version of Europe is any better than the 'mostly trade' version. "But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. " Like the ability to give it's population lifesaving vaccines months faster than the EU? It will take a decade before we know which actions between EU and UK were specifically problematic, my bet is that it's mostly going to be a wash but it's hard to measure the geopolitical effect and things like leverage on trade - but even there, there might be an EEC-like way to do that. Finally, it'd be much less controversial, as there are almost no skeptics of the free market.

>EU is a few decades old failed experiment Why do people say this with such conviction?

by ginko 6y ago

>EU is a few decades old failed experiment Why do people say this with such conviction?

Because the Euro currency is a nuclear bomb, designed to explode sooner or later and take both Germany and Italy down with it. It is only a matter of time. Bernard Connolly has predicted it all in the 90's.

vagrantJin 6y ago

Probably a result of the widespread panic and pessimism that pervades European life. No idea why though. Seems like the future is a scary idea to Europe and sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop. French President Macron laments this in his book/biography "Last President of Europe"

kungito 6y ago

Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. Eurosceptics often focus on one small part of being a part of EU and hate the whole idea for it. While EU gave many good things, opening up markets made many people lose jobs because they weren't prepared or they got crushed by the economies of scale of bigger companies which they were protected from before. On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead.

sofixa 6y ago
> Independence is a big factor in the identity of people from Europe with many failed attempts to join into bigger states or falling apart with many people wanting even their regions of countries to split into separate countries right now. The EU changes nothing regarding that, on the contrary, by being European as well as of X nationality, it helps overcome traditional national rivalries. One of the main points in recent Catalonian and Scottish independence movements has been that due to the EU, the economic and legal impact will be minimal. > On the other hand, many people feel like their countries are constantly giving handouts to the less developed ones and feel like that money could have gone to them personally instead And they don't realise that the improvements in neighbouring countries concern them as well, by adding extra markets and expanding them ( a better developed Romania can buy more German-made washing machines, etc.). The cheap labor that moves is a positive contribution. Then there's the incalculable positive from EU sponsored and made possible programmes of cultural and educational exchanges. The worst thing about the EU is its lacking marketing. Most of the bureaucratic problems with it aren't really that far from the same thing in countries.

mrweasel 6y ago

Because the EU is terrible at highlighting what benefits it actually provides to the people in the union. The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe. But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. Free trade and movement across European borders is product of the EU, and it sucks to have it taken away from you.

jollybean 6y ago
"The EU, for all it’s flaws and silly rules is single greatest thing to happen to Europe." Norway and Switzerland have some words for you. More likely just the EEC was the 'greatest thing' and the EU, essentially the political version, is possibly a negative drag. There's not much indication that the trade-plus-politics version of Europe is any better than the 'mostly trade' version. "But all those good things are only apparent when taken away, the UK is only just now learning that. " Like the ability to give it's population lifesaving vaccines months faster than the EU? It will take a decade before we know which actions between EU and UK were specifically problematic, my bet is that it's mostly going to be a wash but it's hard to measure the geopolitical effect and things like leverage on trade - but even there, there might be an EEC-like way to do that. Finally, it'd be much less controversial, as there are almost no skeptics of the free market.