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Can someone explain to me why the knowhow that European companies like ASML have can't be used to build these foundries. Why do they need Intel or TSMC?

by gman83 5y ago

ginko 5y ago
I would guess there's a lot more know-how necessary to building an efficient fab than just the photolithography machines.
- kazen44 5y ago
  i would assume some know-how is already there. NXP for instance. It's a shame really that most manufacturing of western (EU, US, most ex-soviet states) has been moved to the asian markets. Bert Hubert did a good article about this and the telecom industry a while ago[0]. We see this behaviour all throughout the western world, where we shift money around "creating value" without actually producing anything of note. 0: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/
bserge 5y ago
Fabs are expensive, and there was little to no interest (as such, no investment) in them. They're "interested" in it now, we'll see how much money they can pour into it. Unlike the green initiatives funding (try and get that as a startup hah), money going straight to multibillion euro companies might not be a bad thing in this case.
throwaway4good 5y ago
I don't think there is a good reason other than the willingness to invest in the area has not been there until now.
MangoCoffee 5y ago
>why the knowhow that European companies like ASML have can't be used to build these foundries chip production is not simply buying off the shelf equipment and magically you can get to 10nm max yield that is profitable. equipment is one part of the whole production process. ASML may know how to build EUV but their skillset is not running the fab. if all you need is equipment, why Intel is struggling with 10nm for so long?
- arp242 5y ago
  What other kind of challenges are there in the manufacturing process? I'm not really very knowledgable in this area, and curious to know a bit more.
stunt 5y ago
Chip making was outsourced to Asia because it's cheaper to make them there.
tremon 5y ago
As several siblings have said, this is mainly about willingness/opportunity to invest. Many technical universities have their own fabs for research (I know of DIMES in Delft, IMEC in Gent/Leuven, NanoPhab in Eindhoven), so the capability is there, just not the scale.

Can someone explain to me why the knowhow that European companies like ASML have can't be used to build these foundries. Why do they need Intel or TSMC?

by gman83 5y ago

Can someone explain to me why the knowhow that European companies like ASML have can't be used to build these foundries. Why do they need Intel or TSMC?

ginko 5y ago

I would guess there's a lot more know-how necessary to building an efficient fab than just the photolithography machines.

kazen44 5y ago
i would assume some know-how is already there. NXP for instance. It's a shame really that most manufacturing of western (EU, US, most ex-soviet states) has been moved to the asian markets. Bert Hubert did a good article about this and the telecom industry a while ago[0]. We see this behaviour all throughout the western world, where we shift money around "creating value" without actually producing anything of note. 0: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/

bserge 5y ago

Fabs are expensive, and there was little to no interest (as such, no investment) in them. They're "interested" in it now, we'll see how much money they can pour into it. Unlike the green initiatives funding (try and get that as a startup hah), money going straight to multibillion euro companies might not be a bad thing in this case.

throwaway4good 5y ago

I don't think there is a good reason other than the willingness to invest in the area has not been there until now.

MangoCoffee 5y ago

>why the knowhow that European companies like ASML have can't be used to build these foundries chip production is not simply buying off the shelf equipment and magically you can get to 10nm max yield that is profitable. equipment is one part of the whole production process. ASML may know how to build EUV but their skillset is not running the fab. if all you need is equipment, why Intel is struggling with 10nm for so long?

arp242 5y ago
What other kind of challenges are there in the manufacturing process? I'm not really very knowledgable in this area, and curious to know a bit more.

stunt 5y ago

Chip making was outsourced to Asia because it's cheaper to make them there.

tremon 5y ago

As several siblings have said, this is mainly about willingness/opportunity to invest. Many technical universities have their own fabs for research (I know of DIMES in Delft, IMEC in Gent/Leuven, NanoPhab in Eindhoven), so the capability is there, just not the scale.