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There are federal elections in September in Germany. CDU just fell behind the Green Party in recent polls and SPD (whose Olaf Scholz ultimatively was in charge

There are federal elections in September in Germany. CDU just fell behind the Green Party in recent polls and SPD (whose Olaf Scholz ultimatively was in charge of BaFin) is a shadow of it's former self anyway. I do not think the everything will turn for the better, but I am hopeful that some actions will be taken. The political style of Merkel - and Germany as a whole for that matter - of a steady hand and waiting for consensus to form to go with, will hopefully be ammended by some visionary ideas. I feel the German inferiority complex described in the article. I think it is partly built on a misunderstanding: Silicon Valley was not funded by smart engineers thinking in their garages. It was funded by massive military grants. The garages came later. Last time Germany gave out massive military grants it was sadly very able to compete technologically. Everyone knows, who worked on the rockets that ultimatively won the space race. German universities are indeed world-class. It's not like uneducated people can export this much. The university rankings do not take into account that research in Germany happens at Fraunhofer or Max Planck, which are door to door to their respective university and have shared staff. If all their papers would be taken into account, the rankings would change dramatically. Germany is capable and cold start investing massively. I think the article exactly gets it: We are just too comfortable. Acting like a big Switzerland might not be glorious but in the end I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time. We can always pump some billions into football or another sport once in a while and watch the nation win the world cup, if we really need to dominate something for no good reason, which is an obvious connection to national pride, the article missed out on.

redis_mlc 5y ago
> Silicon Valley was not funded by smart engineers thinking in their garages. It was funded by massive military grants. The garages came later. Well, not exactly: - Stanford U. was the US West Coast US military communications lab - but Shockley (1956) and HP Labs (1966) started in a storefront/lot and garage respectively. The military was just one customer, and both recruited researchers from Bell Labs. > I take a socially relatively cohesive country ... over world leadership any time. US hegemony allows the rest of the countries in its sphere to live in peace, while only paying half or less of their fair share in defense spending. You're welcome. Another post that supports my suggestion to ban European IP addresses from HN - just pointless drivel from the Old World. You know exactly what Russia what do to your German family and friends without "US dominance." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laboratory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laborat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Labs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Labs
lnsru 5y ago
So many wishful thinking. I bet there will be no changes after election. Why should it be? Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. The universities are other funny thing. They have no future with heavily underpaid staff and work contracts for 6-12 month working contracts. Max Planck and Fraunhofer are sweatshops for industrial partners. They do the tasks for industry at 40% costs, again 1 year contracts and sad salary. I don’t want to start about general technical level in Germany. I want to cry when I think about coming relocation and registering whole family in another city. Plus car. Plus another school. It’s all filing tens of pages and using snail mail or showing up in person. Or using fax machine as a modern solution.
- Mashimo 5y ago
  > This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. Why was the pandemic management a real shitshow?
  - allendoerfer 5y ago
    BioNTech (a German company) invents the vaccine known as Pfizer. German (and EU) administration then fails to roll it out. Also weekly meetings changing (symbolic) measures, making everyone tired of the whole show.
    - Mashimo 5y ago
      > German (and EU) administration then fails to roll it out Do you mean they have the vaccine but can't give it to people? I thought we did not secure enough of them. > Also weekly meetings changing (symbolic) measures, Yeah, that is not good. You call that "a real shit show"? Edit: Oh nevermind. You where not the person I asked. Sorry.
      - allendoerfer 5y ago
        > Do you mean they have the vaccine but can't give it to people? I thought we did not secure enough of them. All of the above. Finally they are just giving it to doctors and now numbers are finally ramping up. Leave us some drinks at the opening party, Germany will be a few months late.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time You're obviously entitled to your oppinion, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliché narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? That's like saying Europe suffers from mass terrorist attacks and sexual assaults on young women. >We can always pump some billions into football or another sport once in a while and watch the nation win the world cup, if we really need to dominate something for no good reason Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages and stricter enforcement of regulations so that foreign workers won't have to get exploited by unscrupulous German businesses?[1] That would be for an actual good reason IMHO. [1]https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-540...
- allendoerfer 5y ago
  > Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? Well those are the reasons, why I would not want to live there, even though I recognize it's economical superiority. Actually mostly the freedom of children. The other things you can solve with money. But your kids will have way more freedom in Germany and there is nothing money can do about it in the US.
- pas 5y ago
  > Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages Because there's not consensus about this as OP mentioned. And it's not hard to see that this is the case. AfD is making sure of this. Is the consensus about ignoring AfD and neonazis? Sometimes. :|
- volta83 5y ago
  > Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? Are you saying those aren't issues? Because I've lived in the US, and know many Europeans that have lived there or traveled there on holidays, and pretty much all of them agree that: - the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting ill was when they started living in the US - they were all astonished at the amount of homeless people living in tents in the downtowns of all major cities (here if a major city has like ~10 people sleeping outside in winter, that's bad, but the US is just shockingly bad) - the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting killed was in the US (e.g. interacting with the cops, walking through some neighborhoods) because people were carelessly carrying guns outside (there are guns in Europe, some countries like Switzerland have a ton of guns, but the way people manage guns in public, and that includes police, is radically different) - they were all astonished and the amount of fat people, and how fat they were. What people consider "fat" in Europe would probably be "normal" or maybe even "thin" in the US. You don't find in Europe people that are so fat that don't fit through the door of a bus. These are not narratives, these are facts that every European that lives or has lived in the US will happily tell you about. The US style of living is great if you have money, but Europeans measure their style of living by how the poorest people in their country live, not the richest people. By those measures, the US is an outrageous place for pretty much all European standards. > That's like saying Europe suffers from mass terrorist attacks and sexual assaults on young women. Do you think that's a made up narrative? Because everyone I know in Europe agrees that this is true, that these are horrible issues to have, and that these issues need fixing. Your argument that "the US has no issues because Europe has issues" is typically known as "whataboutism". Don't be a "whataboutist". It doesn't help fix neither Europe's nor USA's issues.
idownvoted 5y ago
> CDU just fell behind the Green Party Obviously people are confused why to vote "conservative" if Merkel has more support from the Green base than her from her own party. [1] > German universities are indeed world-class. I have never seen less ambitous places than the universities of my home country. This includes most of the instructors. Actual science is a different thing. But most of the stuff German universities deal with is supplying the academic titles that more than 50% of German school graduates demand (that's what the Abitur is for). > I think it is quite the opposite and the article exactly gets it: We are just too comfortable. I think the author's depiction is pretty accurate. This comfortability you write about is reflected in our universities. People here who mostly talk about social cohesiveness at the same time demand academic titles for free (payed for by the rest of society) while keeping the perks of better pay than your peers. They despise the american system, but while Americans are envying our vocational education system, the outspoken fans of cohesiveness would never consider the low status of being an Azubi. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/875530/umfrage/zustimmung-zum-verbleib-von-angela-merkel-als-bundeskanzlerin/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/875530/umfrag...
271828182846 5y ago
As a German, I have to say, you're very well summarizing the current state of affairs and my own impressions. Very realistic and matter of fact - very German ;) The US is not a role model for Germany by any standards. But of course it can very well serve as a source of inspiration just like many other cultures and countries. Sadly, precisely this is a weakness of current policitcal elite. It's painful how deliberately they are ignoring advances in drug legislation f.x.. We have many innovative projects just around the corner (Portugal, Switzerland, Netherlands to name some). Instead policitcal affairs are driven by dogmatism and ignorance. And that's precisely the reason for many issues regarding digitalization as well.
- idownvoted 5y ago
  As a German, I have to say he's very well proving the Article's point by resorting to whataboutism. Nobody asked about country X but when criticized we answer with the shortcomings of country X. > German universities are indeed world-class. > socially relatively cohesive country I disagree with the world-classiness. I have rarely encountered less ambitious institutions. But its indicative to me that we claim a wonderful education system in lieu with social cohesiveness, yet it is our very education system which makes us one of the least socially mobile industrial nations on earth.
dna_polymerase 5y ago
> German universities are indeed world-class. It's not like uneducated people can export this much. We export modern versions of the same motors we did for decades. Took one south african immigrant to overthrow our car companies plans for years. > The university rankings do not take into account that research in Germany happens at Fraunhofer or Max Planck, which are door to door to their respective university and have shared staff. If all their papers would be taken into account, the rankings would change dramatically. Quality over quantity. The bullshit those institutes publish regularly is laughable at best. The country you is describe doesn't exist anymore. Germany failed to invest in education, now that there is a pandemic it gets crystal clear: we slept through 30 years of innovation and progress and looking at the current talking points in Berlin I am afraid we are still asleep at the wheel.
- allendoerfer 5y ago
  I think you are massively overestimating the rest of the world. The perfectionism shown in your comment is exactly why the world (correctly or incorrectly) trusts German products.
  - dna_polymerase 5y ago
    I did not make any claim about the rest of the world. And the fact that you try to dodge the substance of the argument and instead try to talk trash about other nations shows everything wrong in the western world, but especially Germany.

redis_mlc 5y ago

> Silicon Valley was not funded by smart engineers thinking in their garages. It was funded by massive military grants. The garages came later. Well, not exactly: - Stanford U. was the US West Coast US military communications lab - but Shockley (1956) and HP Labs (1966) started in a storefront/lot and garage respectively. The military was just one customer, and both recruited researchers from Bell Labs. > I take a socially relatively cohesive country ... over world leadership any time. US hegemony allows the rest of the countries in its sphere to live in peace, while only paying half or less of their fair share in defense spending. You're welcome. Another post that supports my suggestion to ban European IP addresses from HN - just pointless drivel from the Old World. You know exactly what Russia what do to your German family and friends without "US dominance." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laboratory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laborat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Labs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Labs

lnsru 5y ago

So many wishful thinking. I bet there will be no changes after election. Why should it be? Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. The universities are other funny thing. They have no future with heavily underpaid staff and work contracts for 6-12 month working contracts. Max Planck and Fraunhofer are sweatshops for industrial partners. They do the tasks for industry at 40% costs, again 1 year contracts and sad salary. I don’t want to start about general technical level in Germany. I want to cry when I think about coming relocation and registering whole family in another city. Plus car. Plus another school. It’s all filing tens of pages and using snail mail or showing up in person. Or using fax machine as a modern solution.

Mashimo 5y ago
> This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. Why was the pandemic management a real shitshow?
- allendoerfer 5y ago
  BioNTech (a German company) invents the vaccine known as Pfizer. German (and EU) administration then fails to roll it out. Also weekly meetings changing (symbolic) measures, making everyone tired of the whole show.
  - Mashimo 5y ago
    > German (and EU) administration then fails to roll it out Do you mean they have the vaccine but can't give it to people? I thought we did not secure enough of them. > Also weekly meetings changing (symbolic) measures, Yeah, that is not good. You call that "a real shit show"? Edit: Oh nevermind. You where not the person I asked. Sorry.
    - allendoerfer 5y ago
      > Do you mean they have the vaccine but can't give it to people? I thought we did not secure enough of them. All of the above. Finally they are just giving it to doctors and now numbers are finally ramping up. Leave us some drinks at the opening party, Germany will be a few months late.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time You're obviously entitled to your oppinion, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliché narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? That's like saying Europe suffers from mass terrorist attacks and sexual assaults on young women. >We can always pump some billions into football or another sport once in a while and watch the nation win the world cup, if we really need to dominate something for no good reason Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages and stricter enforcement of regulations so that foreign workers won't have to get exploited by unscrupulous German businesses?[1] That would be for an actual good reason IMHO. [1]https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-540...

allendoerfer 5y ago
> Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? Well those are the reasons, why I would not want to live there, even though I recognize it's economical superiority. Actually mostly the freedom of children. The other things you can solve with money. But your kids will have way more freedom in Germany and there is nothing money can do about it in the US.
pas 5y ago
> Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages Because there's not consensus about this as OP mentioned. And it's not hard to see that this is the case. AfD is making sure of this. Is the consensus about ignoring AfD and neonazis? Sometimes. :|
volta83 5y ago
> Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? Are you saying those aren't issues? Because I've lived in the US, and know many Europeans that have lived there or traveled there on holidays, and pretty much all of them agree that: - the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting ill was when they started living in the US - they were all astonished at the amount of homeless people living in tents in the downtowns of all major cities (here if a major city has like ~10 people sleeping outside in winter, that's bad, but the US is just shockingly bad) - the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting killed was in the US (e.g. interacting with the cops, walking through some neighborhoods) because people were carelessly carrying guns outside (there are guns in Europe, some countries like Switzerland have a ton of guns, but the way people manage guns in public, and that includes police, is radically different) - they were all astonished and the amount of fat people, and how fat they were. What people consider "fat" in Europe would probably be "normal" or maybe even "thin" in the US. You don't find in Europe people that are so fat that don't fit through the door of a bus. These are not narratives, these are facts that every European that lives or has lived in the US will happily tell you about. The US style of living is great if you have money, but Europeans measure their style of living by how the poorest people in their country live, not the richest people. By those measures, the US is an outrageous place for pretty much all European standards. > That's like saying Europe suffers from mass terrorist attacks and sexual assaults on young women. Do you think that's a made up narrative? Because everyone I know in Europe agrees that this is true, that these are horrible issues to have, and that these issues need fixing. Your argument that "the US has no issues because Europe has issues" is typically known as "whataboutism". Don't be a "whataboutist". It doesn't help fix neither Europe's nor USA's issues.

idownvoted 5y ago

> CDU just fell behind the Green Party Obviously people are confused why to vote "conservative" if Merkel has more support from the Green base than her from her own party. [1] > German universities are indeed world-class. I have never seen less ambitous places than the universities of my home country. This includes most of the instructors. Actual science is a different thing. But most of the stuff German universities deal with is supplying the academic titles that more than 50% of German school graduates demand (that's what the Abitur is for). > I think it is quite the opposite and the article exactly gets it: We are just too comfortable. I think the author's depiction is pretty accurate. This comfortability you write about is reflected in our universities. People here who mostly talk about social cohesiveness at the same time demand academic titles for free (payed for by the rest of society) while keeping the perks of better pay than your peers. They despise the american system, but while Americans are envying our vocational education system, the outspoken fans of cohesiveness would never consider the low status of being an Azubi. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/875530/umfrage/zustimmung-zum-verbleib-von-angela-merkel-als-bundeskanzlerin/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/875530/umfrag...

271828182846 5y ago

As a German, I have to say, you're very well summarizing the current state of affairs and my own impressions. Very realistic and matter of fact - very German ;) The US is not a role model for Germany by any standards. But of course it can very well serve as a source of inspiration just like many other cultures and countries. Sadly, precisely this is a weakness of current policitcal elite. It's painful how deliberately they are ignoring advances in drug legislation f.x.. We have many innovative projects just around the corner (Portugal, Switzerland, Netherlands to name some). Instead policitcal affairs are driven by dogmatism and ignorance. And that's precisely the reason for many issues regarding digitalization as well.

idownvoted 5y ago
As a German, I have to say he's very well proving the Article's point by resorting to whataboutism. Nobody asked about country X but when criticized we answer with the shortcomings of country X. > German universities are indeed world-class. > socially relatively cohesive country I disagree with the world-classiness. I have rarely encountered less ambitious institutions. But its indicative to me that we claim a wonderful education system in lieu with social cohesiveness, yet it is our very education system which makes us one of the least socially mobile industrial nations on earth.

dna_polymerase 5y ago

> German universities are indeed world-class. It's not like uneducated people can export this much. We export modern versions of the same motors we did for decades. Took one south african immigrant to overthrow our car companies plans for years. > The university rankings do not take into account that research in Germany happens at Fraunhofer or Max Planck, which are door to door to their respective university and have shared staff. If all their papers would be taken into account, the rankings would change dramatically. Quality over quantity. The bullshit those institutes publish regularly is laughable at best. The country you is describe doesn't exist anymore. Germany failed to invest in education, now that there is a pandemic it gets crystal clear: we slept through 30 years of innovation and progress and looking at the current talking points in Berlin I am afraid we are still asleep at the wheel.

allendoerfer 5y ago
I think you are massively overestimating the rest of the world. The perfectionism shown in your comment is exactly why the world (correctly or incorrectly) trusts German products.
- dna_polymerase 5y ago
  I did not make any claim about the rest of the world. And the fact that you try to dodge the substance of the argument and instead try to talk trash about other nations shows everything wrong in the western world, but especially Germany.