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I'm surprised that the article didn't mention the intermediate use case of stationary storage, which can extend the life of batteries many more years before the

by danans 6y ago

I'm surprised that the article didn't mention the intermediate use case of stationary storage, which can extend the life of batteries many more years before they need to be recycled for raw materials.

foepys 6y ago
This will only push the problem by a few years. After that recycling is still necessary.
- theshrike79 6y ago
  Batteries will last a good decade in vehicle use, then another decade for grid storage. VW is already attempting to recycle 95% of their batteries: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/02/lithium-to-lithium-manganese-to-manganese.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/02/lithium... We've got 20 years to improve our recycling process from that. I'm not majorly worried.
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Doubling the useful life of the battery is more than marginally useful. Reuse is much better than recycling when you can do it.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    GP is still right -- eventually the batteries will need to be recycled or disposed of in some way.
    - epistasis 6y ago
      It was the initial comment mentioning reuse that said recycling was necessary after reuse. So I'm not sure what that comment added to the discussion...
    - adgjlsfhk1 6y ago
      The problem with that argument is that with how long lithium ion batteries can be reused, there aren't any big lithium ion batteries at end of life, so it's too early to expect to see them being recycled yet. The first cars with these batteries are less than a decade old, so we're still probably a decade or 2 away from the point that there are enough big batteries reaching end of life that it's worth recycling them.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
flgb 6y ago
E.g. https://www.relectrify.com https://www.relectrify.com
stubish 6y ago
Yes, there is a huge market for used batteries. Trick is to ensure they get put up for sale, because I'm sure the manufacturers are fearful a second hand market will devalue their product. ie. they will offer trade ins and free disposal rather than risk the battery equivalent of retread tires ending up on the market.

by danans 6y ago

foepys 6y ago

This will only push the problem by a few years. After that recycling is still necessary.

theshrike79 6y ago
Batteries will last a good decade in vehicle use, then another decade for grid storage. VW is already attempting to recycle 95% of their batteries: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/02/lithium-to-lithium-manganese-to-manganese.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/02/lithium... We've got 20 years to improve our recycling process from that. I'm not majorly worried.
Robotbeat 6y ago
Doubling the useful life of the battery is more than marginally useful. Reuse is much better than recycling when you can do it.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  GP is still right -- eventually the batteries will need to be recycled or disposed of in some way.
  - epistasis 6y ago
    It was the initial comment mentioning reuse that said recycling was necessary after reuse. So I'm not sure what that comment added to the discussion...
  - adgjlsfhk1 6y ago
    The problem with that argument is that with how long lithium ion batteries can be reused, there aren't any big lithium ion batteries at end of life, so it's too early to expect to see them being recycled yet. The first cars with these batteries are less than a decade old, so we're still probably a decade or 2 away from the point that there are enough big batteries reaching end of life that it's worth recycling them.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

flgb 6y ago

E.g. https://www.relectrify.com https://www.relectrify.com

stubish 6y ago

Yes, there is a huge market for used batteries. Trick is to ensure they get put up for sale, because I'm sure the manufacturers are fearful a second hand market will devalue their product. ie. they will offer trade ins and free disposal rather than risk the battery equivalent of retread tires ending up on the market.