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Credit scams and identity theft are a problem for us because right now the banks don't have to pay any cost of those mistakes. The most direct way to solve the

Credit scams and identity theft are a problem for us because right now the banks don't have to pay any cost of those mistakes. The most direct way to solve the problem of credit scams and identity theft is to put the onus on the bank who opened up the account incorrectly to assume responsibility for the debt, not on the person whose account details were spoofed to create the account. This is quite humorously illustrated by a "That Mitchell and Webb Sound" skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E

TrackerFF 5y ago
Here in Norway, we have this system called BankID - it's a signing system where you can sign documents, and it tends to work great. These days, you can pretty much sign _any_ documents, no mater how important, via the BankID authentication system. It's obviously also 2FA. But still, it does manage to get abused. Unfaithful relatives / spouses / colleagues / etc. can manage to get hold of your password and device, take out loans or buy stuff, and you're 100% in the jam for it. We get cases from time to time where people are basically held accountable for hundreds of thousands in credit/consumer debt, because someone used their signatures to take out those loans. And probably 99 / 100 times, they lose in court, against the banks. The banks will argue that if they were held responsible for such actions, the modern fast-tracked system would halt to a grind. It'd be like in the old days where you needed to show up in person, with all your financials, and carefully go through everything just to get a small-ish loan.
- allset_ 5y ago
  Seems like the ideal use case for a hardware-backed token to be issued to each citizen to hold a private key and use MFA (PIN) to unlock that.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    The auth systems in nordics are step down from that, but it still doesn't help if that is stolen or your spouse steals it, takes look at pin and so on. It is really hard to fight against this sort of access.
    - closeparen 5y ago
      Do you not have community property in the nordics? Here if a married person signs for a loan then the couple is jointly responsible for it, no impersonation required. Same for withdrawals. Some couples will use individual accounts as a convention but they are each entitled to drain the other’s, whether or not their name is on it.
- second--shift 5y ago
  Hello, a friendly correction if I may. In English 'grind' and 'halt' can function as both nouns and verbs - the common colloquialism is 'grind to a halt' where grind is the verb and halt is the end state. In response to your comment, I think that the Norwegian system is inferior in the respect of the end-consumer having the final responsibility. I think that if the bank had final responsibility for any credit fraud, the fast-tracked system would hiccup perhaps, but not grind to a halt. Fintech is evolving rapidly and a new innovation could satisfy both fast banking and keep incentives correctly aligned between banks <-> consumers.

TrackerFF 5y ago

Here in Norway, we have this system called BankID - it's a signing system where you can sign documents, and it tends to work great. These days, you can pretty much sign _any_ documents, no mater how important, via the BankID authentication system. It's obviously also 2FA. But still, it does manage to get abused. Unfaithful relatives / spouses / colleagues / etc. can manage to get hold of your password and device, take out loans or buy stuff, and you're 100% in the jam for it. We get cases from time to time where people are basically held accountable for hundreds of thousands in credit/consumer debt, because someone used their signatures to take out those loans. And probably 99 / 100 times, they lose in court, against the banks. The banks will argue that if they were held responsible for such actions, the modern fast-tracked system would halt to a grind. It'd be like in the old days where you needed to show up in person, with all your financials, and carefully go through everything just to get a small-ish loan.

allset_ 5y ago
Seems like the ideal use case for a hardware-backed token to be issued to each citizen to hold a private key and use MFA (PIN) to unlock that.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  The auth systems in nordics are step down from that, but it still doesn't help if that is stolen or your spouse steals it, takes look at pin and so on. It is really hard to fight against this sort of access.
  - closeparen 5y ago
    Do you not have community property in the nordics? Here if a married person signs for a loan then the couple is jointly responsible for it, no impersonation required. Same for withdrawals. Some couples will use individual accounts as a convention but they are each entitled to drain the other’s, whether or not their name is on it.
second--shift 5y ago
Hello, a friendly correction if I may. In English 'grind' and 'halt' can function as both nouns and verbs - the common colloquialism is 'grind to a halt' where grind is the verb and halt is the end state. In response to your comment, I think that the Norwegian system is inferior in the respect of the end-consumer having the final responsibility. I think that if the bank had final responsibility for any credit fraud, the fast-tracked system would hiccup perhaps, but not grind to a halt. Fintech is evolving rapidly and a new innovation could satisfy both fast banking and keep incentives correctly aligned between banks <-> consumers.