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Like anything, information is on a spectrum, with information objectively true or false at either end, and then a range in the middle that is muddied. We could

Like anything, information is on a spectrum, with information objectively true or false at either end, and then a range in the middle that is muddied. We could probably do something to correct the super obvious falsehoods at the extreme end of the spectrum. However, I don’t think this will help as much as we might like. While it is easy to focus on the obvious falsehoods that some people believe, a lot of what divides us is not things that are objective facts, with one side believing truth and the other fiction. A lot of our fundamental disagreements are about subjective values, and we distract ourselves by thinking the issue is actually about facts. If one person believes that we have a responsibility to help people who are struggling, and another person thinks that everyone is on their own and needs to deal with their own problems, we can’t reconcile that by finding out the ‘objective truth’. Core values aren’t objective facts, but they are what matter the most.

giantg2 6y ago
"A lot of our fundamental disagreements are about subjective values, and we distract ourselves by thinking the issue is actually about facts." This
croon 6y ago
> A lot of our fundamental disagreements are about subjective values, and we distract ourselves by thinking the issue is actually about facts. Originally yes, and if we could all agree on that separation we would probably have an easier time. But subjective values have definitely clouded a whole lot of peoples acceptance of facts in the objective part of the spectrum. That's the real issue. I really enjoy political discussions on how someone else thinks we should optimize for individual freedom or collective utility or what is the most effective way to reach a goal based on some values and premise. I haven't encountered such a discussion in years. Most things boil down to entirely disprovable bs people encounter on whatever facebook (or otherwise) rabbit hole they've decided to live in.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I believe that is because we are essentially taught not to think today. Most of the stuff in school is about deferring to experts on matters of fact. There is very little about creating one's own view point, or even exploring a varieties of existing ones beyond the facts on the surface. I don't see philosophy of argument or formal logic being taught in primary or secondary schools. In my experience, when many teachers encounter a novel idea or viewpoint related to personally important topics, they simply tell the person they are wrong due to the cognitive dissonance of admitting they are wrong or don't know.

giantg2 6y ago

"A lot of our fundamental disagreements are about subjective values, and we distract ourselves by thinking the issue is actually about facts." This

croon 6y ago

> A lot of our fundamental disagreements are about subjective values, and we distract ourselves by thinking the issue is actually about facts. Originally yes, and if we could all agree on that separation we would probably have an easier time. But subjective values have definitely clouded a whole lot of peoples acceptance of facts in the objective part of the spectrum. That's the real issue. I really enjoy political discussions on how someone else thinks we should optimize for individual freedom or collective utility or what is the most effective way to reach a goal based on some values and premise. I haven't encountered such a discussion in years. Most things boil down to entirely disprovable bs people encounter on whatever facebook (or otherwise) rabbit hole they've decided to live in.

giantg2 6y ago
I believe that is because we are essentially taught not to think today. Most of the stuff in school is about deferring to experts on matters of fact. There is very little about creating one's own view point, or even exploring a varieties of existing ones beyond the facts on the surface. I don't see philosophy of argument or formal logic being taught in primary or secondary schools. In my experience, when many teachers encounter a novel idea or viewpoint related to personally important topics, they simply tell the person they are wrong due to the cognitive dissonance of admitting they are wrong or don't know.