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They don't know how much of this is DDT but they have reason to believe there is a lot of DDT out there and the stability of the chemical is a big issue for cle

They don't know how much of this is DDT but they have reason to believe there is a lot of DDT out there and the stability of the chemical is a big issue for cleanup efforts. From the article: The U.S. banned its use in 1972, but the chemical, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, is so stable it continues to poison the environment and move up the food chain. One thing we do for petrochemical spills is release microbes that digest petrochemicals so the spill can be broken down. I wonder if we could develop a similar means to clean up DDT.

pomian 6y ago
Yes, bacterial degradation is a thing, and a great idea.The problem with any degradation process: ozone, hydrogen peroxide, bacteria, can lead to intermediate or final forms of chemicals that are even worse (more toxic.) Organochlorine chemistry is complicated. The by products are even more complex. And then each of those reactions) effects on the environment are complex. One of the best places to put something at risk is deep in the water, hence deep tailing ponds for acid mine waste, to stop there Oxidation processes. For example surface rust on a car can prevent deeper rust, by creating a non reactive layer. But this is a huge problem! Thousands of barrels, probably other compounds equally or more vicious. The only known way of complete destruction is controlled high temperature incineration - which is expensive, and only certain sites certified to do it.(>1850°C) And of course transport risky. (And if you don't keep control of combustion, then more dangerous side products in the air.) So, for now, best to keep it there, until a complete plan is made. Moving it, touching it, without a that plan, could make it much worse, by mobilising it, exposing to water flows, disseminating it, making it accessible to animals. Quite possibly might be best to bury everything. A horrible thought, but may be the best. It's 3000 meters down! (And this isn't even radioactive!) Just for clarity: not a chemist, but an environmental engineer.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  > (And this isn't even radioactive!) That's sad, though. "Radioactive" is a synonym to "the problem solves itself given enough time". Non-radioactive toxic waste stays dangerous forever.
  - someguydave 6y ago
    there is plenty of dangerous stuff naturally present in the Earth’s crust - and mostly it is fine if it stays buried.
  - astrea 6y ago
    > "the problem solves itself given enough time" Is a casual way of saying "This remains lethal for 100,000 years. As if that isn't effectively forever given the lifespan of humans and human societies.
girvo 6y ago
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00288233.1997.9513247 https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.10... This seems relevant to that thought, I think. > Microbial degradation of DDT and its residues—A review
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Thank you. Excerpt: Early investigations on the fate of DDT in rodents demonstrated that the indigenous microflora of animals were responsible for the conversion of DDT to DDD (Barker et al. 1965; Mendel & Walton 1966). Since then a number of microbes have been shown to be capable of converting DDT to DDD in pure culture. These include the bacteria Escherichia coli, Enterobacter aerogenes, Enterobacter cloacae, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Pseudomonas putida. Bacillus sp., "Hydrogenomonas", and the fungi Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Phanerochaete chrysosporium, and Trichoderma viridae...
XorNot 6y ago
This isn't a spill though: it's in containers. So it needs to be dredged up and destroyed by high temperature incineration.
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  Is it actually DDT tho, or by the way it's worded - waste from DDT manufacturing. p.s. here's a great lecture on DDT and history of nerve agents https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7WunS8qCz0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7WunS8qCz0
- loeg 6y ago
  Several of the containers are leaking.
  - downrightmike 6y ago
    Happens when you use axes to make holes so they sink.

pomian 6y ago

Yes, bacterial degradation is a thing, and a great idea.The problem with any degradation process: ozone, hydrogen peroxide, bacteria, can lead to intermediate or final forms of chemicals that are even worse (more toxic.) Organochlorine chemistry is complicated. The by products are even more complex. And then each of those reactions) effects on the environment are complex. One of the best places to put something at risk is deep in the water, hence deep tailing ponds for acid mine waste, to stop there Oxidation processes. For example surface rust on a car can prevent deeper rust, by creating a non reactive layer. But this is a huge problem! Thousands of barrels, probably other compounds equally or more vicious. The only known way of complete destruction is controlled high temperature incineration - which is expensive, and only certain sites certified to do it.(>1850°C) And of course transport risky. (And if you don't keep control of combustion, then more dangerous side products in the air.) So, for now, best to keep it there, until a complete plan is made. Moving it, touching it, without a that plan, could make it much worse, by mobilising it, exposing to water flows, disseminating it, making it accessible to animals. Quite possibly might be best to bury everything. A horrible thought, but may be the best. It's 3000 meters down! (And this isn't even radioactive!) Just for clarity: not a chemist, but an environmental engineer.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
> (And this isn't even radioactive!) That's sad, though. "Radioactive" is a synonym to "the problem solves itself given enough time". Non-radioactive toxic waste stays dangerous forever.
- someguydave 6y ago
  there is plenty of dangerous stuff naturally present in the Earth’s crust - and mostly it is fine if it stays buried.
- astrea 6y ago
  > "the problem solves itself given enough time" Is a casual way of saying "This remains lethal for 100,000 years. As if that isn't effectively forever given the lifespan of humans and human societies.

girvo 6y ago

https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00288233.1997.9513247 https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.10... This seems relevant to that thought, I think. > Microbial degradation of DDT and its residues—A review

DoreenMichele 6y ago
Thank you. Excerpt: Early investigations on the fate of DDT in rodents demonstrated that the indigenous microflora of animals were responsible for the conversion of DDT to DDD (Barker et al. 1965; Mendel & Walton 1966). Since then a number of microbes have been shown to be capable of converting DDT to DDD in pure culture. These include the bacteria Escherichia coli, Enterobacter aerogenes, Enterobacter cloacae, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Pseudomonas putida. Bacillus sp., "Hydrogenomonas", and the fungi Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Phanerochaete chrysosporium, and Trichoderma viridae...

XorNot 6y ago

This isn't a spill though: it's in containers. So it needs to be dredged up and destroyed by high temperature incineration.

dzhiurgis 6y ago
Is it actually DDT tho, or by the way it's worded - waste from DDT manufacturing. p.s. here's a great lecture on DDT and history of nerve agents https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7WunS8qCz0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7WunS8qCz0
loeg 6y ago
Several of the containers are leaking.
- downrightmike 6y ago
  Happens when you use axes to make holes so they sink.